Can ESOL Classes Work Online?

NETEACH Nook
------- ----
A spacious classroom with a comfortable, lived-in feeling to it.
Among all the decorations brought by teachers from all parts of
the globe, there is a large, up-to-date world map with brightly
colored push-pins showing where NETEACHers have connected from.
So far, there are pins in Japan, Korea, Hong Kong, Australia,
Greece, UK, Brazil, Israel, Canada, France, Germany, Kuwait,
Cyprus, and all over the US.
You see Teacher's Desk, Big Table, Bulletin Board, Beanbags, Fireside
Bearskin, Kitchen Table, Wading Pool, and Hot Tub.
You see Flemmex (Distracted), Mehitabel, samson [Guest], tyla [Guest]
(Distracted), Lex, Bronzed_Aussie, and Dasha standing about.
You see LCD Panel.
Obvious exits: out and frizbee
Bronzed_Aussie [to Gregor]: I met Lesley yesterday at Sunshine station
(our next best thing to the Bronx) and she was carrying a didgeree doo
she had just bought for Markus .. quite a sight! :)
Mehitabel says, "A what???"
Gregor [to Bronzed_Aussie]: Cool!
Dasha [to Bronzed_Aussie]: I used to know what that was.
Bronzed_Aussie says, "can't spell ... a didgeree doo (Aboriginal wind
instrument)"
Flemmex gets eir ass here.
Dasha [to Mehitabel]: We're culturally deprived.
Flemmex says, "Morning"
Mehitabel says, "I see."
Gregor says, "The Violent Femmes have a song called Didgeree Doo."
Bronzed_Aussie [to Flemmex]: hi mex
Flemmex says, "Hi BA."
Lex [to Flemmex]: 'Nite
Mehitabel [to Gregor]: Here come your people.
Gregor says, "Ah, there's the U-Colorado Denver bunch."
Bronzed_Aussie says, "there's possibly a didgeree doo at The Australian
Cultural Centre"
Gregor says, "Let's wait just a couple more minutes to start."
samson [Guest] has disconnected.
A campus caretaker arrives, and escorts samson [Guest] to bed.
Gregor says, "hi, Bud!"
Bud [Guest] says, "hi, gregor"
Bronzed_Aussie rolls his eyes at all this American cultural ignorance
and smirks at Flemmeex
tyla [Guest] has disconnected.
A campus caretaker arrives, and escorts tyla [Guest] to bed.
Flemmex scrolls back, reads and laughs
Gregor [to Bronzed_Aussie]: Hey, i knew what it was!
Flemmex [to Bronzed_Aussie]: Did you *really* get a photo of Lesley???
Bud [Guest] says, "who's here"
Mehitabel is
Bronzed_Aussie says, "stacks of phots the ss will upload to the website
today"
Dasha [to Bronzed_Aussie]: You didn't!  of Lesley???
Gregor [to Bud [Guest]]: You're the first from UCD.
Brit [Guest] has arrived.
Bronzed_Aussie says, "yeah!"
Bud [Guest] says, "yay for me!"
Flemmex is amazed.
Gregor cheers for the stubby stubbly guy.
Lex [to Brit [Guest]]: hi, who are you
Mehitabel [to Brit [Guest]]: Are you a friend of LEx's?
Bud [Guest] grins and bears it
Gregor says, "Well, heck, let's go ahead."
Flemmex [to Bronzed_Aussie]: Did she have any trouble getting to
Sunshine by train?
Lex [to Mehitabel]: you better believe it. I've been on the phone..
Bronzed_Aussie [to Flemmex]: you know how toula is with that MAvica! ...
Flemmex [to Bronzed_Aussie]: Que?
Bronzed_Aussie [to Flemmex]: it was funny! i don't think she fully
appreciated the dangers :))

Gregor puts Transparency No.1 on the stage.

On the screen you see...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

             Welcome to NETEACH-L's MOO discussion sessions!

             (with much appreciation to schMOOze University
             and its fine players, programmers, and wizards!)

               Please note! Our sessions are always logged.
      By participating, you give permission to Greg Younger to allow
    access to the transcripts for research purposes at his discretion.
    Before using any part of our logs for research or publication, please
      obtain the permission of Greg Younger at youngerg@colorado.edu

                For a transcript, please see our web page:
              http://spot.colorado.edu/~youngerg/netmoo.html

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Trumpets flourish.

Gregor puts Transparency No.2 on the stage.

On the screen you see...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                      ***      INTRODUCTIONS      ***

     You are of course welcome to remain anonymous, but at this time
     we invite all of you who wish to do so to identify yourselves by
     your name and affiliation.
 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flemmex says, "She's staying here tonight. I wonder if she could get to
Moonee Ponds ok? Save driving into the city at 5:30"
Bud [Guest] waits in anticipation
Gregor is Greg Younger, Economics Institute, Boulder, Colorado, USA.
Flemmex is Mex Butler from Melbourne, an adult literacy and ESL teacher
Mehitabel is Julie Falsetti from Hunter College in New York City.
Gregor pokes and elbows the others into participation.
Dasha says, "I'm Dasha Frangie Wayne State University, Detroit, Michigan"
Bud [Guest] is at the University of Colorado, Denver
Lex Lex yawns and says, "Lex is Lewis Lebolt, Web designer and English
teacher, working for the Swedish National Institute for Distance Ed
Bronzed_Aussie says, "I'm dale Pobega from Melbourne Australia and work
in adult ed and ESL too"
Gregor says, "Allllrighty then. Welcome!"
Mehitabel says, "And Brit?"
Gregor pokes and elbows Brit.
Bronzed_Aussie says, "hey Pommie! wake up :))"
Gregor says, "She'll catch up. :o)"

Gregor puts Transparency No.3 on the stage.

On the screen you see...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

               ***  Can ESOL Classes Work Online?  ***

In this session, we'll open the floor for brainstorming and discussion
onthe topic of the potential benefits and limitations of ESOL courses
delivered at a distance. We hope for participants of all persuasions,
from cynical skeptics to starry-eyed dreamers, from newbies to old hands, and  all steps in between. Which language skills can be taught
effectively online with relative ease? Which ones are going to take
heaps of work? Which ones are bound to flop?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dasha says, "and where do we start?"
Gregor says, "Lesley wanted me to revise this description because she felt it implied that language classes aren't already being delivered
at a distance. You can understand her point, I'm sure..."
Gregor grins.
kel [Guest] is going to try to join you.
Gregor says, "But I'm sure we can all agree that there are inherent
difficulties in teaching certain skills."
kel [Guest] has arrived.
kel [Guest] waves and smiles
Mehitabel says, "Hi, kel."
Lex says, "Oral skills are impossible via Internet"
Gregor [to kel [Guest]]: Hi, Welcome. Type LOOK LCD to see the topic.
[Lex is looking at the screen.]
[kel [Guest] is looking at the screen.]
Gregor says, "I'm going to flash one more slide up there...."

Gregor puts Transparency No.4 on the stage.

On the screen you see...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Let's begin our discussion by brainstorming some of the skills which
 fill you with the most skepticism. Which skills would be the most
 difficult (to deliver and/or to create) in an Internet-based distance
 course?

  We can use the BLACKBOARD, a feature of this virtual classroom, to
  facilitate this process. To add a line of text to the blackboard,
  anyone can type:
              writeb <message>
  For example,
              writeb Limited bandwidth prevents use of video

  To see what has been written, type:
                look black  (or just L black)

         Feel free to toss some ideas up onto the blackboard now.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DB slides in, ready to NETwork.
Dasha says, "Well, her school's delivery of distance lessons is not
computer based, really.  So is that the focus?"
Mehitabel [to Dasha]: How are they delivered?
Dasha says, "are we looking at web based instructions here?"
Bronzed_Aussie [to Lex]: I agree .. the technology for communicating
orally simply is not there yet
Gregor [to Dasha]: Not necessarily. Let's first talk about some of the
things we're most skeptical about, then talk about solutions if we have
time. I'm hoping to focus on Internet-delivered instruction.
Lex writes on the blackboard...
Dasha says, "As I understand it, it's still really textbased, videobased, etc."
Gregor says, "If you're not sure how to write on the blackboard, type LOOK LCD to see the instructions again."
==================== BLACKBOARD ===========================

1)  I didn't realise what a range of students you have in ACE
2)  MOO breaks down the walls of the classroom
3)  Hi, folks!
4)  oral skills

===========================================================
[DB is looking at the screen.]
Gregor says, "oops, hold on a sec..."
Gregor cleans the blackboard with a soapy sponge...
Gregor [to Lex]: Wanna type yours again? I just erased it.
Lex writes on the blackboard...
==================== BLACKBOARD ===========================

1)  Oral skills

===========================================================
Gregor writes on the blackboard...
Bronzed_Aussie writes on the blackboard...
Lex writes on the blackboard...
==================== BLACKBOARD ===========================

1)  Oral skills
2)  more oral skills.
3)  BA is skeptical about use of audio clients for oral communication .. hasn't seen any yet that impresses him
4)  testing for credit

===========================================================
Gregor [to Lex]: Good point.
Mehitabel writes on the blackboard...
Gregor [to Lex]: Not a "skill" but certainly a candidate for skepticism.
==================== BLACKBOARD ===========================

1)  Oral skills
2)  more oral skills.
3)  BA is skeptical about use of audio clients for oral communication ..
hasn't seen any yet that impresses him
4)  testing for credit
5)  I am skeptical about actually holding classes on the web

===========================================================
[Brit [Guest] is looking at the screen.]
Bronzed_Aussie says, "oh Mehi,  really? do you mean classes withour RL
classroom support?"
Mehitabel says, "I mean a traditional type of class."
Bronzed_Aussie nods.
Gregor says, "Looks like we're in agreement about oral skills being a
serious sticking point, but Mehi raises a broader issue that we ought to discuss more."
Lex says, "better begin in that case by giving a rough definition of
traditonal"
Dasha says, "I'm not going to add oral skills work again"
Gregor says, "Shall we switch gears and talk about what CAN be taught on the net? (in terms of language instruction)"
Mehitabel says, "The teacher lectures and the students listen and ask
questions."
Flemmex writes on the blackboard...
Lex nods
Flemmex started a www based course on how to put courses online. It was
so bad I quit
Gregor nods. "Can we agree that that "traditional" form of instruction
has pretty much been discredited for language teaching in real life anyway?"
Dasha says, "I just finished a course on web based instruction, using a
commercial course delivery system.  They also echoed the problems of
language arts in general, especially with audio segments."
Bronzed_Aussie says, "I find using moo for purposeful discussion which
can be logged, printed out and then used in the RL classroom for discourse analysis very useful ... looking at register, grammar, spelling etc"
Gregor [to Dasha]: May I ask which commercial system?
Dasha [to Gregor]: courselink
Gregor scribbles a note.
Dasha [to Gregor]: My mock 'course' is on line still.
kel [Guest] writes on the blackboard...
Mehitabel [to Bronzed_Aussie]: How did the Sophie's World go?
Gregor says, "Several of us have used the term 'web-based'... are we talking about Internet-based or purely web-based?"
Dasha writes on the blackboard...
==================== BLACKBOARD ===========================

1)  Oral skills
2)  more oral skills.
3)  BA is skeptical about use of audio clients for oral communication ..
hasn't seen any yet that impresses him
4)  testing for credit
5)  I am skeptical about actually holding classes on the web
6)  I don't think most web based courses are up to scratch yet.
7)  I'm impressed with the text-based application of using MOOs to teach
ESL and the 'safety' factor of anonymity that this environment provides.  Not quite sure how to integrate oral exercises with a MOO lesson though??? Save that for RL?
8)  online work is excellent for drills and practice tests.

===========================================================
Lex says, "chat or moo approaches oral skills in one respect: the
spontaneity of communication."
Bronzed_Aussie says, "well. sophie has really surprised me ... the
combination of net media really works well ... MOO, WWW and mailing list as an extension of our coursework"
DB says, "If I may, there are some researchers who suggest that MOO
interactions WILL help oral fluency."
Gregor [to Bronzed_Aussie]: Are most of the participants in contact IRL,
or are they at a distance from you?
Dasha says, "oh...like in the courselink system, they also have embedded
chat and bulletin boards.  It's still web based."
kel [Guest] nods at DB
Lex  suggests that drills and practice tests online aren't much different than having a workbook with answers in the back.
Gregor [to Bronzed_Aussie]: And what's the URL of your Sophie's World project, please?
Bronzed_Aussie says, "I think you've got to combine the media to get results .. but still , the actual RL classroom contact is important ... no, not all the participants are ss in my class ... two are  .. the rest from remote locations"
Gregor nods at Dasha.
Bronzed_Aussie says, "http://www.vicnet.net.au/~twt/sophie.html"
kel [Guest] scrambles madly for a pencil
Gregor says, "What would students be missing if they took their EFL classes completely at a distance, over the web? Could they achieve
'communicative competence?'"
Gregor [to kel [Guest]]: I'm logging this... it'll be in the NETEACH MOO
archives.
Lex thinks that if they can't he's out of a job.
Dasha [to Lex]: you're right, I think, about drills being the same
essentially, whether in a text or on line.
DB says, "How many students in a classroom situation achieve
communicative competence?"
Gregor [to Lex]: Hee hee! That will shorten my career too. That's why
I'm anxious to hold this discussion. :o)
Flemmex doesn't think communicastive competence is "achieved" in the
classroom but by applying what is learnt or clarified in class in "real life" situations
Dasha [to Lex]: There's still this 'gee whiz' factor the students seem to enjoy when they think they're beating the machine.  I also get to add the computer training to my class, a university survival skill.
DB  nods
Lex says, "Our experience so far is good, but we're working with students with a certain degree of competency when they arrive."
DB says, "Is a MOO a "real-life situation?"
Flemmex says, "Which is why MOO is cool because ss can move easily
between "sheltered" classroom activities and the "real life" of talking to native speakiers they've never met before about real things in genuine conversations"
Gregor [to DB]: In our intensive English program, I'd say almost all do
attain the ability to communicate effectively. But I think a big factor in it is their immersion in a native-speaking environment.
Lex thinks that MOOs approach real life communication to the extent that
the experiences can be unpredictable.
Flemmex [to DB]: Yes, in my opinion
kel [Guest] "yes It has been invaluable in breaking the ice and
promoting productive conversations in my classes.
Lex [to Flemmex]: "Sorry: ss?"
Flemmex [to les]: ss == students
DB says, "MOOs can potentially "emmerse" even students who can't afford a trip to the states."
Flemmex says, "to Lex I mean."
Dasha says, "with MOO work, however, I find the debriefing to be as
useful, sometimes more so, than the MOO activity."
DB says, "or England or Australia, etc."
Lex [to Dasha]: does the debriefing take place at the MOO?
Mehitabel can hardly wait for someone to do a serious study on mooing and l2 improvement.
DB says, "I'm working on it!"
Dasha says, "No, after the lab session."
Gregor [to Lex]: You said you'd be out of a job if students couldn't
learn the language successfully at a distance... what are you doing about the oral skills problem?
Bronzed_Aussie [to DB]: depends how you set up your activity and for
what purpose ... I use it in Sophie as a conferencing space with some virtual reference books ... this enviironment is very good as a non threatening communicative space .. my students can experiement with ideas and register they don't really have mastery of
Dasha says, "However, I'm used another MOO for my class."
Lex [to Gregor]: as far as I can see, the only route is telephone
conferences or some other medium
Dasha says, "I no speaka da speak today, sorry."
Mehitabel [to Lex]: will your potential students ever have contact with
an RL teacher?
Dasha says, "I think at OU they use mailed cassettes for distance
evaluation...Where's Lesley when you need her?"
Gregor [to Lex]: I'm thinking we can work on some of those skills
through exchanging short digitized audio snippets for feedback on pronunciation, intonation, etc., much as a RL teacher might do with audiotaped assignments. Have you considered anything along those lines?
Bronzed_Aussie [to Dasha]: freezing here in Melbourne! :)
Lex [to Mehitabel]: I suspect it will happen, but I'm trying to design a
course that as far as possible doesn't require it
Mehitabel says, "I think tapes are a good idea."
Bronzed_Aussie says, "since we are on the subject of audio .. what's
your impression of Randall's Cyber listening lab?"
Mehitabel says, "URL?"
Lex [to Gregor]: yes, but that will help mostly on listening
comprehension and pronunciation, not oral COMMUNICATION
Bronzed_Aussie says, "hang on"
Dasha says, "I haven't looked at it yet.  My lab and my office computer
is not so hot."
Gregor [to Lex]: I know. But we've got to start somewhere, right? :o)
Bronzed_Aussie says, "http://www2.gol.com/users/rsdavis/cyberlab/lab.htm"
Gregor . o O ( BA is Johnny-on-the-spot! )
Lex [to Gregor]: yes, and you're right, they help
Gregor says, "Getting back to Mehi's skepticism about being able to offer classes online at all..."
==================== BLACKBOARD ===========================

1)  Oral skills
2)  more oral skills.
3)  BA is skeptical about use of audio clients for oral communication ..
hasn't seen any yet that impresses him
4)  testing for credit
5)  I am skeptical about actually holding classes on the web
6)  I don't think most web based courses are up to scratch yet.
7)  I'm impressed with the text-based application of using MOOs to teach
ESL and the 'safety' factor of anonymity that this environment provides.  Not quite sure how to integrate oral exercises with a MOO lesson though??? Save that for RL?
8)  online work is excellent for drills and practice tests.

===========================================================
Bronzed_Aussie [to Lex]: yes, listening is a distinct skill but I'm
impressed by the potential uses of Real Audio ... I want to get hold of it to do my own Aussie English exercises ... seems pretty easy to record ... maybe we could get ss using it for oral communication
DB has disconnected.
Mehitabel says, "Randal is very clear."
Dasha says, "I really agree with Mehi, especially for whole language,
four skills education.  The computer is enrichment."
Bronzed_Aussie [to Mehitabel]: yes, he is!
Gregor says, "Do you think that a teacher can teach a group of students in remote locations via NON-traditional means? Is there some other organization that will work with a group?"
kel [Guest] has disconnected.
A campus caretaker arrives, and escorts kel [Guest] to bed.
Gregor says, "Or is the Net more appropriate for one-on-one tutorial type teaching?"
Mehitabel nods to the non-tradiontial approach.
Lex [to Bronzed_Aussie]: creating real audio requires a technical
expertise I don't expect all my students to have
Gregor [to Lex]: That's the problem I'm looking at too... we can create
listening materials fairly painlessly, but i'm still trying to figure out a good interface for students to record their voices and send it back to us easily.
Lex  thinks that the great thing about distance ed on the net is that you can form student groups, the one-on-one education is like the correspondence courses, traditional in a different way
Gregor [to Mehitabel]: What is that non-trad approach, then?
Lex [to Gregor]: how about cassettes?
Mehitabel says, "Like Lex said, small group work."
Gregor [to Lex]: Problem is that they'll be all over the world.
Mehitabel says, "Time differences are a problem."
Lex says, "Like now?"
Gregor says, "we're based in the US and hoping to market to Asia, MidEast, etc."
Bud [Guest] has disconnected.
A campus caretaker arrives, and escorts Bud [Guest] to bed.
Lex says, "OK, then you form student groups by time zones within a class"
Mehitabel says, "It requires a bit of organization."
Gregor nods. "That's good for the group work... I was really responding
to "what about cassettes"
Dasha says, "and even within time zones, connections are dicey."
Bronzed_Aussie says, "you need the RL support .. I've just been up to
the Northern Territory talkingto teachers who work with Aboriginal ss ... there's a lot of interest in distance ed .. naturally with communities being so remote ... but there are probs .. not all groups take to the technology so easily  (in this case it is cultural) ... there are issues about sacrificing group oriented pedagogical approaches that need to be thought about carefully"
The housekeeper arrives to cart DB off to bed.
Mehitabel says, "I like the idea of groups snail mailing packages to
each other."
InSmile knocks politely to see if she may enter.
Dasha says, "Now what about things like NetMeeting?"
InSmile is going to try to join you.
InSmile has arrived.
bart [Guest] slides in, ready to NETwork.
Mehitabel says, "Hi, InSmile and Bart."
Gregor welcomes bart and Insmile to the discussion.
Lex says, "I've been working with NetMeeting for a few years. It's
quirky, poor, and telephone works and sounds better. It's a great idea, but not if you're sitting behind a 14.4 modem."
Dasha crashes with the audio portion of CU SeeMe, no matter what modem
Mehitabel says, "have you tried PowWow?"
Dasha says, "No mac version, platform bias."
InSmile wave to Mehitabel to say hi
Mehitabel is a real cool cat.
Gregor [to Mehitabel]: The problem with powwow seems to be the interface
and support... if you were going to use it with students, I think you'd need to write your own help pages for them.
Mehitabel says, "Ah! Another problem -- different platforms."
Bronzed_Aussie says, "lesley showed us a new audio-phone app being
developed by OU that she swears by .. uses much  lower bandwidth"
Dasha says, "I had a lecture delivered to my class via netmeeting.  I
was really impressed."
Gregor [to Bronzed_Aussie]: Sadly, I don't think they plan to share it
with the rest of us right away.
Bronzed_Aussie says, "september I believe"
Mehitabel [to Lex]: You can't even buy a 14.4 modem in the US now.
Lex says, "Yes, and the ability to share an application is intriguing,
but it still eats the bandwidth"
Lex [to Mehitabel]: but people still have them
Dasha says, "One complaint I had with the courselink system I had to use
this semester was that it presumed everyone had top of the line access."
Mehitabel says, "The latest craze here is leasing computers. You get a
new one every two years."
Brit [Guest] has disconnected.
A campus caretaker arrives, and escorts Brit [Guest] to bed.
Lex says, "Web designers have to assume that people are still using
Netscape and Explorer 3, why should we assume that they've all got Pentiums and ISDN?"
Dasha says, "An administrator there, and the prof of my course, who's
here at this same university with me, couldn't believe I have only netscape 1.1!"
Bronzed_Aussie says, "what about overlaying MOO with albeit imperfect
audio app .. using them in conjunction with one another? I really likeed it when Lesley and I used MOO and I-Phone in tandem"
Gregor [to Dasha]: We're looking into contracting with RealEducation <
http://www.realeducation.com > to support our distance courses. One of
their selling points is that all their applications were created to run on a 486 with a 28.8 modem.
Mehitabel says, "Well, with the right client, we could do that now."
Dasha [to Bronzed_Aussie]: Is it platform specific?
Bronzed_Aussie says, "I-phone is PC oriented but you could use any audio
app really"
Bronzed_Aussie says, "just takes the edge off text heaviness over a long
stretch "
news [Guest] has been moved, possibly against its will. We hope Those
Responsible are happy.
Lex says, "No matter what this must presume that the student, who in
distance ed is at home, has a sound card and mike"
Dasha [to Gregor]: I had no choice.  This was a free deal made with the
prof and Courselink.  My department won't be doing anything like this.  My boss didn't even look at my work.
Gregor nods BA. "I've simultaneously MOOed and Powwowed with Mehi,
Lesley, Mex... there's something to be said for that mix of media."
Bronzed_Aussie nods.
Mehitabel hung Greg's pic on her monitor too.
Lex [to Mehitabel]: Much better than trying to get a video stream going
Gregor giggles. "I had yours up in another window, Mehi."
Bronzed_Aussie . o O ( why do we all seem to believe we have to go for
the perfect all-in one app? )
news [Guest] has disconnected.
A campus caretaker arrives, and escorts news [Guest] to bed.
Mehitabel says, "Killer app."
Gregor [to Bronzed_Aussie]: I guess it's an ideal we search for because
we don't want to have to teach the students 4-5 different apps when they
want to be learning language instead.
Lex says, "In that case it should probably be a browser, because if ss
know anything about the Net it's that."
Dasha says, "I'd love to try this.  I need guidance as to what to
download."
Gregor notes that he realizes that they are learning and using language
when we teach them how to use the apps too.
Bronzed_Aussie [to Dasha]: we should try it with a MAC client together?
Lex [to Gregor]: yes, but they might not be interested in this particular kind of English at all
Mehitabel says, "That is the nice thing about L2 teaching. Anything you do is didactic."
Dasha [to Bronzed_Aussie]: tell me what to get.
Lex says, "Working in adult ed I'd prefer to concentrate on the kind of Eng the ss want study-wise, professionally, etc"
Dasha nods at Mehitabel.
Gregor [to Lex]: Yes, I often find that my RL students are skeptical of some of the activities that we do because they aren't obviously "language learning" activities. It's often something I have to 'sell' to them, and they don't always buy it.
Mehitabel says, "Yes, students love grammar drills."
Bronzed_Aussie [to Dasha]: don't use my MAC much nowadays but I think there is an I-phone for MAC now .. we could investigate and give it a burl?
Lex says, "Ahh, the conservatism of students..."
Lex [to Gregor]: it seems to me the technical side must be downplayed as a medium, not a goal
Gregor nods Lex. "Good point."
Bronzed_Aussie [to Mehitabel]: I can't get mine away from OZESL .. millions of those drop down box grammar exercises .. it frightens me!
InSmile flattens out into a largish 32 cent postage stamp and floats
away.
Lex says, "Point of order: does this conversation end in five minutes or continue?"
Mehitabel points out the most of the NNSs here are here by choice and came on their own.
Bronzed_Aussie says, "point of order! oh dear :))"
Gregor says, "We can go on as long as we like."
Lex [to Bronzed_Aussie]: sorry, I'm only a few hours old here
Mehitabel says, "Some people like this and some don't."
Mehitabel [to Lex]: We are an informal bunch for the most part.
Gregor says, "Though I'd like to try to keep it close to an hour... I need to go cook dinner soon."
Bronzed_Aussie grins and leaves no doubt as to their intentions.
Lex smiles and thinks thank god for that
Gregor [to Lex]: Are you teaching distance language classes now?
Bronzed_Aussie says, "that leaves no doubts to their intentions" FO has
to go .. what the hell does it mean?"
Mehitabel says, "To summarize, I think that we should abandon the quest
for a killer app and learn how to best integrate what is available."
Bronzed_Aussie agrees
Lex says, "Well, teaching isn't the word. I create them with Brit (I
think) and she runs them."
Gregor says, "Anything else we should abandon?"
Lex says, "Anything that could just as well be printed in a book"
Mehitabel says, "Grammar drill and kill."
Mehitabel says, "Yes!!!"
Mehitabel says, "I like books."
Mehitabel says, "reading from the screen is a distant second choice."
Lex says, "to mehi they're great and should be used, just not on a
monitor but between covers"
Gregor says, "Any predictions about when it will be possible to send audio back andforth (realtime or not) via run-of-the-mill computers?"
Flemmex agrees about integrating
Mehitabel [to Gregor]: What are run-of-the mill?
Flemmex says, "Divergence rather than convergence"
Lex [to Mehitabel]: anything that's standard in about 15 years
Bronzed_Aussie [to Flemmex]: ???
Flemmex wants diversity, not narrowing of choices for students and
teachers
Gregor [to Mehitabel]: Not more than $2000, without an ISDN line.
Bronzed_Aussie nods.
Mehitabel says, "In that case, I have bottom of the line."
Mehitabel is plugging along on 133 mhrtz.
Mehitabel says, "You can buy double my computer now for $800."
Lex says, "It's not the computer, it's the connection"
Gregor laughs. "I know, I know."
Mehitabel says, "I think that is a country type question."
Gregor says, "Yeah, it is at that."
Mehitabel says, "ISDN is dead. It will all be via cable soon."
Lex says, "or ADSL"
Bronzed_Aussie says, "the need to think about the cross over activities
between RL classroom and NET should be kept in mind ... moving in and out of these two contexts works well for me"
Lex [to Bronzed_Aussie]: then you're not, strictly speaking, running
distance ed?
Gregor says, "Folks, I think we've reached a reasonable stopping place. I'd like to draw this to a close... I think Mehi's summary was a good conclusion."
Gregor's stomach rumbles.
Bronzed_Aussie says, "... net activities as extensions, not total
replacements "
Bronzed_Aussie [to Lex]: yes, I am skeptical re distance ed and its
effectiveness
Gregor says, "We'll repeat (or continue) this discussion next week..."
rufus [Guest] knocks politely to see if it may enter.
|----------------[Gregor slaps some spam on the screen]----------------|
     NETEACH MOO Session 18-B  (Tuesday, July 21, 9 AM EDT)
              (14:00 PM London, 10 PM Tokyo)
|---------------------[Gregor wipes off his hands]---------------------|
rufus [Guest] is going to try to join you.
rufus [Guest] has arrived.
Mehitabel says, "Hi, rufus?"
Gregor [to rufus [Guest]]: Hi! We're just tying up this discussion!
rufus [Guest] says, "Sorry I'm late"
Lex [to Bronzed_Aussie]: OK
Mehitabel [to rufus [Guest]]: Are you the Rufus I met in Long Beach?
Dasha says, "Thank you.  interesting topicl."
rufus [Guest] says, "Nope That was another Rufus"
Mehitabel says, "OK."
Gregor [to rufus [Guest]]: Are you the Ruthesse I met on Tuesday? :o)
Bronzed_Aussie must literally run to class .... he is still in his PJs
covered in crumbs and vegemite all over his face
A largish 32 cent postage stamp floats into the room and fattens up into
InSmile.
rufus [Guest] says, "So I've missed the discussion"
Kermit is going to try to join you.
Kermit has arrived.
Gregor [to Bronzed_Aussie]: Thanks for coming!
Dasha waves.

Gregor puts Transparency No.5 on the stage.

On the screen you see...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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