SESSION 2-B

(Net Worth: Communicating the Value of Internet Activities)

NETEACH Nook
------- ----
Your typical classroom.  It has that new smell to it, and it is empty. All
 walls are primed with white paint and are bare, except for one light switch.
You see Teacher's Desk, Big Table, Bulletin Board, Beanbags, Kitchen Table,
 Wading Pool, Bearskin by the Fire, and Hot Tub.
You see Yoshi, Smoody, Frizzy, scorpy [Guest], Corwin, and Truna standing 
 about.
You see LCD Panel and Last Week's Blackboard.
Obvious exits: out
sierra [Guest] slides in, ready to NETwork.
Gregor says, "Hi, Sierra!"
Gregor . o O ( High Sierra? )
Corwin chuckles
Yoshi says, "High sierra!"
sierra [Guest] says, "what will you be talking about at neteach today""
Truna grins warmly at the new arrivals
Frizzy thinks that's a nice cue to get started.
Gregor [to sierra [Guest]]: I'm just getting to that.. ;o)
Gregor grins.
Frizzy winks at Gregor.

Gregor puts a transparency on the screen...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

             Welcome to NETEACH-L's MOO discussion sessions!

             (with much appreciation to schMOOze University 
             and its fine players, programmers, and wizards!)

               Please note! Our sessions are always logged.
    Before using any part of our logs for research or publication, please 
     obtain the permission of all particpants of those selected sessions.

                For a transcript, please see our web page:
              http://spot.colorado.edu/~youngerg/netmoo.html

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gregor says, "And as routine would have it...."

Gregor puts a transparency on the screen...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                      ***      INTRODUCTIONS      ***

     You are of course welcome to remain anonymous, but at this time
     we invite all of you who wish to do so to identify yourselves by
     your name and affiliation.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sierra [Guest] waves
Ron has arrived.
Ron says, "Hi everybody!"
Gregor says, "Hi, Ron! Just in time for introductions!"
Yoshi says, "Hi Ron."
Corwin says, "Hi Ron!"
Gregor is Greg Younger from the Economics Institute in Boulder, CO, USA.
Frizzy is Karla Frizler, an Educational Technology Specialist for a community
 college in San Francisco.  
sierra [Guest] says, "The skiing is great up in the sierras now --have you
 ever taught ESL and skiing at the same time/""
Ron steps out.
Smoody says, "I'm Suzan Moody at the University of Kansas"
Gregor [to sierra [Guest]]: I've done ESL and whitewater rafting! ;o)
Truna is Truna aka j.turner from QUT in Brisbane (the land of bright parrots)
Yoshi aka Yoshinator, teaches English at a college in Japan.
sierra [Guest] says, "Sierra teacher ESL on TV in   So Cal""
Corwin teaches ESL in a Univeristy in Hong Kong and is called Nick
Green slides in, ready to NETwork.
Frizzy rolls out a red carpet to welcome Green.
Yoshi says, "Hi Green."
Green says, "Hello everyi"
Gregor says, "Hiya, Green! We were just having introductions."
Green says, "Hi"
Yoshi waits for Gregor-colored carpet to come.

Gregor puts a transparency on the screen...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      ** Net Worth: Communicating the Value of Internet Activities **

    Many of us face a number of Internet access problems for ourselves 
    as well as for our students. *We* know we're onto something, but our    
    colleagues and administrators may remain skeptical. How do we gain 
    their support and cooperation? 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Green says, "I am Greg Matheson"
Gregor says, "This was our proposed topic for the month...we had a good discussion
 last week."

Gregor puts a transparency on the screen...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Last week at our discussion on the same topic, 'access' was not 
    necessarily the problem for our participants; the real issue seemed 
    to be 'involvement.' 

    In other words, given the learning curve for technical training, the 
    time needed for preparation, and the potential for technical 
    difficulties, some of our colleagues are very hesitant to dive into 
    using the 'Net in their teaching. 
                   ***   Why should they bother?   ***

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ron has arrived.
sierra [Guest] says, "Sierra is actually Michael Silverman from CSU-Fullerton""
Green says, "hi Ron"
Gregor [to sierra [Guest]]: Noce to meet you!
Corwin [to sierra [Guest]]: Welcome Mike!
Frizzy [to sierra [Guest]]: "Hey Michael!  nice to see you again"
Gregor says, "Those of you who were with us last week...do you agree with my
 assessment of that session?"
Yoshi says, "Nice to see ya, Green."
Frizzy nods to Gregor.
Green says, "Hi Yoshi"
Corwin [to Gregor]: yes and..
Truna nods too
Yoshi nod at Gregor.
sierra [Guest] says, "The problem on my campus is with the technical people as
 well.  They are very turf protective and tend to think of think
 unidimensionally""
Corwin says, "..looking at the last log.."
Ron says, "Today I realized that one must adopt some guerilla tactics in order
 to get the connections you want."
Truna says, "At this instant the techies are on ur side but our system cannot
 take the load :("
Yoshi [to Ron]: Such as?
Green says, "There is a side and a educational side? Is this the way to put
 it?"
Ron says, "Such as, figure ways around the system (of course there must be a
 system upand running first.)"
Green says, "A technical side and an educational side?"
sierra [Guest] says, "Frizzy - thanks for the greeting. I've got some learning
 to do here with "
Gregor [to sierra [Guest]]: What tends to happen as a result of this
 unidimensionality?
Corwin says, ".. wondered if it would be useful identifying/making explicit
 togther the "what is the worth" before moving onto the "how to communicate
 it?""
Truna [to Green]: We have a very paranoid Admin side..
Ron [to Green]: But we know what it is worth, don't we?
Gregor [to Corwin]: I don't think that's a bad idea. It might be good for us
 to re-articulate it for ourselves.
Frizzy nods.
Corwin doesn't think he has all the arguments and would like help getting 'em
 all together
Yoshi [to Ron]: I agree.  I'd like to add to that doing something cool on the
 net and spread the words and show what you're doing to the colleagues, just
 like guerillas doing some org.
Green says, "Yeh we have to communicate it."
sierra [Guest] says, "Well on this campus, the techies have their way of doing
 things.  For example,"
Corwin [to Ron]: maybe I'll get it later.. :)
Truna says, "I feel that once a couple of teacher have shown what using CMC is
 worth, others want to join in but then they hit a kind of 'techno barrier'"
Frizzy says, "It's very important to SHOW people benefits, if possible."
Ron [to Corwin]: I think people here know what the net is worth in education.
Frizzy thinks Ron should be thankful!
sierra [Guest] says, ""
Gregor says, "Why don't we quickly slap some of those benefits up on the board
 now? just to get us on an even footing here."
Truna [to Frizzy]: Definately showing works..and then the students often take
 up the cause.
Green says, "Skunkworks."
Gregor says, "The command to write on the blackboard is:   writeb "
Ron [to Frizzy]: Thankful for the resources available here?
sierra [Guest] says, "Technical people here tend to know how to run the
 equipment and to run the software but they don't usually know how to apply it
 teaching.""
Gregor writes on the blackboard...
Green says, "What are we writing?"
Gregor is tossing some of his ideas of the bennies up on the blackboard.
Frizzy [to Ron]: "didn't you say the people at your school know the worth of
 the net in education?  I meant, be thankful for that.  There's half the
 battle."
sierra [Guest] writes on the blackboard...
Yoshi [to sierra [Guest]]: That's the case almost everywhere.  And that's why
 we techie kind of teachers have to fill up, IMHO.
Ron [to Frizzy]: I meant that people here know the worth of the net.
Gregor [to Yoshi]: That's what I'm doing...kind of running on doubletime to
 both teach and preach. And learning at the same time!
Frizzy agrees with Yoshi.  "We are liasons between instructors and techies."
Yoshi writes on the blackboard...
Ron [to Frizzy]: By here, I mean in this room.
Gregor says, "BTW, to read the board, type LOOK BLACK"
Truna writes on the blackboard...
Frizzy giggles at Ron. "Oh, oops!"
Yoshi nods enthusiastically at Gregor, who's in the same situation as he is.
Gregor writes on the blackboard...
Green says, ""Libing in hope is like dancing without music"
Frizzy does full-time exactly what Gregor & Yoshi do IN ADDITION to teaching a
 full load.
sierra [Guest] writes on the blackboard...
sierra [Guest] writes on the blackboard...
sierra [Guest] writes on the blackboard...
Frizzy writes on the blackboard...
Green writes on the blackboard...
Gregor writes on the blackboard...
sierra [Guest] writes on the blackboard...
Frizzy writes on the blackboard...
Yoshi says, "OK, folks, let me fix the blank lines on the board now."
==================== BLACKBOARD ===========================

1)  Authentic audience for writing classes
2)  
3)  Real-time communication.
4)  Using a Useful RL facility, a new literacy
5)  The students learn a life skill as a side effect of learning English.
6)  
7)  
8)  (authentic communciation)
9)  Students have fun--they're motivated to read, write and communicate with
 others.
10)  Self awareness enhanced in real communication
11)  The teachers learn a TON and find new routes to collaboration!
12)  (reach students who couldn't normally attend the traditional class)
13)  Depending on access, Ss can practice their English whenever they feel
 inspired (not just at set times, like class times.)

===========================================================
A small swarm of 3x5 index cards arrives, engulfs Yoshi, and carries him away.
Truna kicks her Vax rather hard..and feeds the lag creature
A small swarm of 3x5 index cards blows in and disperses, revealing Yoshi.
Yoshi says, "Done."
Gregor . o O ( What a wiz that Yoshi iz! )
Gregor grins.
Yoshi grins back.
Green says, "@more"
Gregor says, "Anyone else have any good one-liners about the value of the net?"
sierra [Guest] writes on the blackboard...
Corwin says, "Thanks evreyone!"
Frizzy's so wordy her one-liners are TWO-liners!
Yoshi laughs.
Gregor winks at Frizzy.
Truna giggles at Frizzy and wishes she could say it so well
Ron writes on the blackboard...
Green writes on the blackboard...
Yoshi says, "Line in this sense is one until the carrige return;)"
sierra [Guest] says, "Aside from the bene's, we need to work with
 administration to set up"
Truna writes on the blackboard...
Green says, "Are administrators more interested than teachers?"
Frizzy writes on the blackboard...
Yoshi nods at sierra.  "Yes, administration of a lab can be much burden for a
 lot of teachers."
sierra [Guest] says, "Aside from the benefits, we need to work with
 adminstrative people to set up a systym that brings in money -- the bottom
 line these days is money--unless "
Gregor says, "I think I've been successful in slowly moving my institute forward
 by creating a demand...First, I got a couple other teachers using email so
 that we had to fight for access to our ONE MODEM..."
Yoshi says, "Ooops, I misread:p"
Ron writes on the blackboard...
==================== BLACKBOARD ===========================

1)  Authentic audience for writing classes
2)  Real-time communication.
3)  Using a Useful RL facility, a new literacy
4)  The students learn a life skill as a side effect of learning English.
5)  (authentic communciation)
6)  Students have fun--they're motivated to read, write and communicate with
 others.
7)  Self awareness enhanced in real communication
8)  The teachers learn a TON and find new routes to collaboration!
9)  (reach students who couldn't normally attend the traditional class)
10)  Depending on access, Ss can practice their English whenever they feel
 inspired (not just at set times, like class times.)
11)  (it can be very cost effective.   One instructor can reach many more
 students than in the traditional classroom.  Web pages can be used to supply
12)  A great medium for student-teacher communication.
13)  real communication outside classroom setting in EFL setting
14)  Hmm, something else too, something to do with making the classroom real,
 bringing in the outside world....
15)  Preparation for the real world.  Our Ss will be expected to deal with
 vast amount of info, plus tech stuff, once they leave our campuses.
16)  Preparation for the work environment.

===========================================================
Gregor opens the door to NETEACH Nook. . .
Perimead [Guest] slides in, ready to NETwork.
Pozzo knocks politely to see if he may enter.
Yoshi says, "Hi Perimead."
Corwin says, "Hi Perimenad"
Perimead [Guest] says, "Hi everyone"
Green says, "hi"
Corwin says, "Perimead!"
Pozzo has arrived.
Gregor says, "then I started getting my students email accounts and making email
 assignments. Soon the stu's were grousing about lack of access, and things
 started to open up!"
Truna Hi
Gregor waves to the newcomers!
Frizzy likes Gregor's approach.
Yoshi says, "Hiya, another ally from Japan!"
Pozzo nods.
Green says, "Perhpas students provide the push?"
Ron says, "Whoever wrote number 15 is on the same wavelength as I am."
Corwin says, "sounds tlike a sound strategy G"
Pozzo says, "Good morning everyone. Sorry to be late."
sierra [Guest] says, "I think that some Prof's are afraid because the feel
 like they will lose there power and that students can cheat more easily --
 the professor as the center"
Yoshi [to Frizzy]: Me too.  Hasty approach or setting up totally new things
 suddenly dont usually work.
Frizzy says, "At my school, we have several pilot instructors using the Net in
 their courses, and the course evaluations have been amazing!  They will be
 good ammo for administrators."
Gregor nods to Frizzy. "They put in four lines for stus and four for
 teachers...now that's not enough, and we recently got 16 lines total. The
 nest step is a direct connection before fall!
sierra [Guest] says, "The campus here is technically behind too.""
Ron says, "At VCU the computer resources are pretty good."
Frizzy grins at Ron.  "We are *always* on the same wavelength, Pa."
Ron . o O ( How come the system has such a frightful lag!? )
Yoshi [to sierra [Guest]]: True, but we also have to let them know students
 still can cheat in traditional ways if they dare.
Gregor says, "Pozzo and Perimead, we were just brainstorming what the benefits of
 the net are for ESL instruction...type LOOK BLACK to see our list."
sierra [Guest] says, "We also have to work to make the Net teaching more
 multi-media and not"
Yoshi [to Pozzo]: Type:  l black
Ron [to sierra [Guest]]: Why do we have to make the Net more multimedia?
Yoshi [to Perimead/Pozzo]: Type:  l black
Pozzo says, "Thanks, I saw."
Frizzy says, "I havelook here"
Frizzy says, "OOps!"
Perimead [Guest] says, "Looks like a great list"
Pozzo says, "I'd like to suggest one."
Yoshi [to Ron]: I'm rather skeptical about all this multimedia fuss.
sierra [Guest] says, "yes not just text based -- so this requires more
 hardware.  Business are already doing it with desktop video conferencing.  Ed
 facilities have to step up and apply this technology -- to make Net teaching
 more like what profs are doing now yet with tons of additional benefits""
Gregor [to Pozzo]: type:  writeb   <--whatever you want to write on
 the board.
Green says, "More multimeddia will give better language learning?"
Pozzo [to Gregor]: Thanks.
Truna [to Ron]: I have wondered that...I watch my students work in text IN
 ENGLISH but use the whizzy stuff to contact their homes...
Frizzy raises her eyebrow, skeptical, about the multimedia push.
Yoshi doubts it.
Ron [to Yoshi]: I skeptical about multimedia, too.
Perimead [Guest] says, "I don't see many ESL teachers at SFSU willing to
 venture on to the Net.  I don't know whether they think it won't help, or
 they simply don't have time to learn about it."
Yoshi [to Pozzo]: Tell the story about the huge movie file the guy tried to
 send you the other day.
Truna looks around her centre. Yes, the Indonesian mafia are using the web
 chat to talk to friends In INDONESIAN!
Smoody says, "Can we brainstorm for ideas to get our colleagues interested?"
Gregor thinks Perimead may have part of the key there...the time thing.
Ron [to Truna]: What do you me by ". . . use the whizzy stuff to contact their
 homes."
Green says, "I think the stuff on early adopters and laggards is important"
Ron [to Truna]: Using the Web to chat is not multimedia, is it?
Gregor nods to Smoody. "I think that might be a useful next step here."
Corwin says, "yeah Susan.. also where the rsistences come from and the types
 like Sierra gave earlier"
==================== BLACKBOARD ===========================

1)  Authentic audience for writing classes
2)  Real-time communication.
3)  Using a Useful RL facility, a new literacy
4)  The students learn a life skill as a side effect of learning English.
5)  (authentic communciation)
6)  Students have fun--they're motivated to read, write and communicate with
 others.
7)  Self awareness enhanced in real communication
8)  The teachers learn a TON and find new routes to collaboration!
9)  (reach students who couldn't normally attend the traditional class)
10)  Depending on access, Ss can practice their English whenever they feel
 inspired (not just at set times, like class times.)
11)  (it can be very cost effective.   One instructor can reach many more
 students than in the traditional classroom.  Web pages can be used to supply
12)  A great medium for student-teacher communication.
13)  real communication outside classroom setting in EFL setting
14)  Hmm, something else too, something to do with making the classroom real,
 bringing in the outside world....
15)  Preparation for the real world.  Our Ss will be expected to deal with
 vast amount of info, plus tech stuff, once they leave our campuses.
16)  Preparation for the work environment.

===========================================================
Gregor says, "Anyone want a last look at the board before I clear it?"
Yoshi nod at Corwin.
Green says, "It's the same fac-to-face. The hot medium is more likely to
 induce L1."
Frizzy [to Gregor]: "Can you save it for the log?"
Truna [to Ron]: They tend to use the glam tart (the web) to read their
 newspapers, play games all the multimedia pages are in their own languages. I
 like them ti have that contact, but they use the text stuff to practice
 English..
Ron wonders why we are concerned about getting our colleagues to use the Net.
sierra [Guest] writes on the blackboard...
Gregor [to Frizzy]: Got it. :o)
Frizzy thinks people (herself included) will want to refer to it later.
Gregor cleans the blackboard with a soapy sponge...
Corwin says, "some students resist too Ron.. at least here"
Truna [to Ron]: Not multimedia but more visual...
Gregor [to Ron]: Because if I don't get my colleagues using it, my admins will
 be plenty upset with me for making myself an expensive playground out of our
 lab! It has to be widely used to be cost-effective...
Smoody [to Ron]: I guess we don't have the struggle with administrators at our
 school, but I often feel like one of a few who want to use the web in class.
Gregor says, "...at least at a small private institute like mine."
Green says, "We just have to stay ahead and offer more interesting ESL stuff."
Ron [to Gregor]: You mean you have labs that are not being widely used?
Pozzo writes on the blackboard...
Gregor nods sadly to Ron.
Truna gives the lag animal cocoa in the hope of sending it to sleep
Frizzy has seen some schools with fantastic labs/access, etc. but no one using
 them!
Frizzy weeped.
Ron [to Smoody]: Are you being held back from using the Web in your classes?
Frizzy says, "Oops!  Wept."
Frizzy . o O ( Egad! )
Corwin nods to frixxy "here too"
Corwin says, "Sorry Frizzy :)"
Pozzo [to Yoshi]: How can Iook at the blackboard?
==================== BLACKBOARD ===========================

1)  Moos are good halfway houses on the way to speech, for students who don't
 have a lot of opportunity to speak with native English speakers. They present
 a mode of training communication, halfway between writing and conversation. I
 think it would be possible to show by some kind of learning study how they
 are effective in a *learning* sense in this way. They a radically new
 application of language, I think, and could radically change the way we think
 about language and language acquisition.

===========================================================
Pozzo says, "I just wrote up an idea on it."
Ron thinks Greg's needs in getting people online are specific to lab managers.
Gregor [to Pozzo]: LOOK BLACK
Frizzy has learned that it's also important to respect teachers who have TRIED
 some of the things we're into and who are just not interested.
Smoody [to Ron]: Unfortunately since I work only in the lab, getting other
 teachers interested is the only way something will happen in class.
A small swarm of 3x5 index cards arrives, engulfs Yoshi, and carries him away.
Pozzo [to Gregor]: thanks
Ron [to Gregor]: You are one of the technical people.
A small swarm of 3x5 index cards blows in and disperses, revealing Yoshi.
Gregor [to Ron]: No, I'm a fulltime teacher.
Yoshi drops Board1.
Corwin [to Frizzy]: Yeah.. this is not for every teacher or every learner
Pozzo [to Gregor]: Were the other messages erased? Were they from last week?
Gregor [to Pozzo]: The messages from last week are here too...type LOOK LWB
Pozzo nods studiously.
LWB = Last Week's Board. ;o)
Ron [to Gregor]: But when you are concerned about getting people to use a lab,
 you are on the tech side.
Frizzy [to Ron]: "not necessarily.  How about if you want your program to use
 a new textbook?"
Smoody likes Frizzy's textbook example.
Gregor [to Ron]: That's true. I'm CALL coordinator AND a fulltime teacher. And
 Media Center/Faculty liaison. and academic advisor. I wash windows sometimes
 too. ;o)
Ron says, "It seems to me that the big issue we need to discuss is access."
Frizzy thinks the word "lab" can be deceiving.  "I think what most of us are
 talking about here is using computers for classroom purposes, as a tool."
Ron [to Frizzy]: I don't understand the relevance of getting your program to
 use a new textbook.
Smoody [to Ron]: I guess your interests and my interests show a difference in
 what is already available.  Our students have access.
Green says, "We need to use the groundswell that exists. We are only chips on
 surface of water"
Ron [to Smoody]: Do you teach?
Smoody [to Ron]: I used to, but I became one of the lab assistants when the
 lab opened.
Gregor says, "My access problems are diminishing steadily...my real concern is
 getting others using what we've got. The same arguments I'm looking for
 should apply to those arguing for access in the first place, I think."
Frizzy [to Ron]: "If you want your program to use a particular textbook
 (change from what already exists), you would bring it up, maybe demonstrate
 how you think it will benefit students, etc.  Same thing with using the Net
 in the classroom.  It's a tool.
Smoody [to Ron]: I can collaborate with teachers, but they are the ones that
 must use the web in class.
Green says, "Access. CAn't students use commercial services?"
Ron [to Smoody]: So you don't have the opportunity to use the Web in classes.
Frizzy [to Green]: "Many of my students can't afford that."
Ron has given up trying to sell his colleagues on using the Net, but will help
 if they ask.
Smoody [to Ron]: I have designed web pages for teachers to use in class.  I
 have created web pages that I think students will be interested in, but I
 don't have my own class of students.
Truna wonders if CMC use is not so much like useing a new core text, more like
 encouraging new support materials?
sierra [Guest] says, "Bye""
Ron [to Smoody]: Could you start an online class, free university style?
Frizzy waves to sierra.
sierra [Guest] has disconnected.
Frizzy [to Truna]: "Better analogy."
Pozzo whispers, "Thanks"
Corwin nods to truna
Smoody says, "We tried one activity at our lab.  Maybe someone can come up
 with some more suggestions.  We had a mini-conference before the fall
 semester.  We had sessions all day highlighting what teachers could do with
 e-mail, web pages, and our software."
Frizzy offers Smoody a teaching position at FUN if she'd like one.
Ron says, "But I don't like it when others tell me what textbook to use."
Pozzo writes on the blackboard...
Green says, "More like trying to convince an audiolingual teacher to use
 communicative methods."
Yoshi says, "I'm kind of lost after I talked with a visitor irl, but if you're
 talking about using web for local purposes such as distributing material, I
 don't think the access won't be a big problem."
Frizzy says, "I think teacher-training workshops are important, but they also
 need encouragement to actually TRY these things themselves.  Where I work, we
 have a federal grant to integrate tech across the curriculum, and pilot
 teachers get a small stipend after they "test" a new tool in their classes."
Gregor [to Smoody]: the mini-conference sounds like a good idea.
Smoody says, "Maybe getting more teachers involved would create a bigger need
 and that would help the access problem.. . . "
Frizzy nods.
Ron wonders if it would be helpful to cede the floor to one person at a time
 (or is that antiethical to MOOs) to discuss their situation/interest.
Smoody says, "Hmmm a stipend.  Is that like a reward?"
Smoody smiles
Green says, "NNS teachers will use the nskills outside the class but not use
 L2 inside it."
Frizzy grins.  "It's more like acknowledging that this stuff takes a lot of
 time and energy and imagination."
Gregor says, "For the next term, I have requested a half-time teaching load. With
 the rest of my time, I will be physically in the lab with my fellow
 teachers,helping them use the technology. I'll meet with them ahead of time
 to see where we can fit these activities into their goals for the course..."
Gregor [to Ron]: I'd say it's better that we just all talk, pick up on threads
 we want to continue, and sort it out when we read the log. :o)
Truna [to Ron]: I think that's how we all feel..which is why the Net offers us
 yet more facilities and support materials/projects etc..?
Ron says, "I am a full time teacher and my interests are in finding better
 ways to use the Net."
Smoody says, "One of my colleagues (Janel) had the idea of meeting with
 teachers individually to encourage interest.  That sounds like it would be
 time-consuming, but it may take that kind of time to get results."
Gregor says, "One of our major goals at my school is academic prep, and as Friz
 and ron have pointed out, using the net is an important acdemic skill."
Corwin [to Ron]: what's your context in terms of access, etc
Green says, "Giving all teachers access is an important first step."
Ron thinks we can best recruit teachers by example.
Frizzy [to Smoody]: "That's part of what I do. I offer hands-on workshops to
 groups, then offer individual advising/assistance based on teachers' needs."
Truna [to Gregor]: Your hope for next term is what I do all the time..it works
 really well, teachers can take the risks with some support!
Green says, "Give teachers the big picture."
Ron [to Corwin]: Access is good here.  All students can get computer accounts
 and there are lots of labs.  We don't have many computer classrooms, however.
Gregor [to Ron]: I agree! Example, and then support.
Corwin's running workshops just to help tecahers get familiar with the net for
 personal use first, then moving onto classroom use when they are comfortable
Pozzo writes on the blackboard...
Frizzy says, "At my institution, I've developed a good relationship with the
 Administrative Computing folks . . ."
Gregor [to Frizzy]: You've mentioned that giving teacher real tasks to get
 them started is a motivating way of going about it...do you have any good
 examples?
==================== BLACKBOARD ===========================

1)  Moos are good halfway houses on the way to speech, for students who don't
 have a lot of opportunity to speak with native English speakers. They present
 a mode of training communication, halfway between writing and conversation. I
 think it would be possible to show by some kind of learning study how they
 are effective in a *learning* sense in this way. They a radically new
 application of language, I think, and could radically change the way we think
 about language and language acquisition.
2)  message
3)  Re. above point. This creates a link between traditional conceptions of
 language, language teaching with contemporary philosophies about language and
 culture - postmodernism, deconstruction etc. Not knowing a huge amount about
 linguistics, language acquisition etc, they have seemed to me to be somewhat
 retro, traditionally determined areas. The new developments will bring a lot
 of intellectual interest to the disciplines, I think.

===========================================================
Green says, "Yeh real tasks!"
Frizzy says, "They give people an initial tech training (e.g. how to use
 e-mail), and then I follow up with more specific training on using email in
 the classroom or for prof dev."
Ron [to Frizzy]: That is Step One of a Neteacher's guerilla tactics.
Corwin says, ".. getting them comfortable/confident with the techie stuff that
 is"
Green says, "TEachers' resource books!"
Smoody [to Corwin]: Can you tell us what topics your workshops are on?
Ron says, "As more teachers use the Net other teachers will need to follow. 
 Students will demand it."
Corwin [to Smoody]: things like listservs and WWW that have information and
 contacts relvant to their research interests
Frizzy [to Gregor]: "Let's see . . . well, in a workshop I'll do in a few
 weeks, I want to introduce search engines on the Web by having Ts search for
 info in their respective fields.  They can then give me URLs of cool pages
 they find, and I'll compile them all into a Web site they can access later.
Gregor [to Frizzy]: Good start!
Corwin says, "snap Frizzy"
Ron says, "The program in which I teach  does not have a lab.  I have worked
 with the English Department to get labs for classroom use."
Green says, "TEaching by example"
Frizzy [to Ron]: "If I may be so bold, perhaps you could use the word
 'classroom' rather than 'lab.'  Some people don't see labs as instructional."
Gregor says, "I got started with email when I needed to know more about organizing
 a software fair for Colorado TESOL...a mentor of mine pointed me to TESL-L
 (which was just getting started) to post my questions...and away I went!"
Ron [to Frizzy]: When there aren
Perimead [Guest] says, "In the College of Humanities at SFSU, we have one
 classroom with Macs and one with IBM clones, but if they're not free when
 your class is scheduled, it's justoo bad."
Pozzo says, "It's perhaps all in its infancy, don't you think? A lot of what
 we do is like the dinasours, probably. But my feeling is, be there or be
 square. It is an absolute necessity to keep in touch with the developments -
 that's what it's all about, guiding students into the future of all this
 development - that is, what will *be* the future itself. And all this is tied
 up with global cultural transformation - language is such an enormous part of
 all that."
Pozzo . o O ( wish I could remember how to spell dinasor )
Corwin waves bye and leaves reluctantly
Ron [to Frizzy]: When there aren't computer classrooms, labs can be used.
Yoshi says, "See you, Corwin."
Green says, "What are good  Sorry"
Frizzy says, "From my experience working with teachers, I think most of what
 they need to start out (much like our students) is focus.  Putting someone on
 the Web without any guidance is a nightmare, and very disillusioning."
Gregor waves to Corwin.
Corwin says, "Bye everyone.. thanks and sorry I can't stay"
Ron [to Perimead [Guest]]: Yes, that is a problem here, too.
Truna [to Pozzo]: I with you there - if we don't try things, we'll never know..
Time and space distorts again as Corwin moves into shadow.
Corwin has disconnected.
Truna waves to Corwin
Mr.C has arrived.
Gregor says, "So help them find resources that interest them, such as web searc
 tools and specific listservs...."
Green says, "Hey Mr C"
Gregor says, "Hey, C. Welcome!"
Yoshi says, "Hi Mr.C."
Mr.C says, "Hi everybody... sorry I'm later."
Truna says, "And get them to start to make and plan their own projects.."
Ron wonders how many people here teach in a computer classroom.
Gregor adds, "And then follow through with support as they try it the first
 time in class..."
Frizzy nods to Truna.  "In  my workshop on using PowerPoint, I want each
 teacher to leave with at least the beginning of something s/he can use in a
 fall class."
Truna grins at Mr.C in greeting
Green says, "But you need to include recipes they can just go in and do while
 theya relearning."
Perimead [Guest] says, "It would be great if they could be excused from
 teaching one class to learn,"
Frizzy NODS to Perimead. 
Truna [to Frizzy]: Yes, if the teachers get the idea of these facilities and
 'make them their own' with their own ideas..THEN they can teach their
 studetns.
Gregor [to Perimead [Guest]]: That would be ideal. That's the situation at the
 ELI at Oregon (State?) that I heard about in Deborah Healey's presentation at
 TESOL this spring.
Frizzy says, "I also like the idea of a teacher mentoring program . . ."
Frizzy says, "When one teacher feels comfortable using some aspect of
 technology, s/he volunteers to train at least one other teacher over the
 course of a semester."
Gregor giggles. "We had peer mentoring for awhile, but it dissolved into trips
 to the bar down the hill for Beer Mentoring."
Perimead [Guest] says, "Frizzy, That would be good too."
Green says, "Teachers need to make their own and to do other people's
 activities"
Frizzy cracks up!
Mr.C [to Frizzy]: I've been doing that for the past two years.
Truna giggles
Ron says, "We are planning a special program for some Thai grad students, and
 I was asked to do a computer component."
Frizzy [to Mr.C]: "Beer Mentoring?!"
Frizzy grins.
Pozzo says, "I have a bit of trouble with the technical side. Most of my
 manuals are in Japanese, and so I have to ask people for technical assistance
 sometimes, and that can become complicated."
Gregor cracks up!
Yoshi [to Frizzy]: Yes, that's exactly what I've been doing here too.  Making
 children of guerillas.
Pozzo says, "There's a lot of technical stuff involved."
Yoshi giggles.
Gregor [to Ron]: What's the focus?
Frizzy [to Ron]: "What will you be doing?  That sounds interesting."
Yoshi [to Pozzo]: Ask me instead then.
Mr.C [to Frizzy]: I wish I got beer out of it... I've just been working hard
 to get them to turn on their machines.
Perimead [Guest] says, "I have to leave.  It was good to be here.  Bye,
 everyone!"
Truna has deep sympathy with Pozzo, she saw a Russan intro to exel recently!
Yoshi says, "See you, Perimead."
Truna says, "Bye Perimead!"
Frizzy hugs Perimead goodbye.
Gregor says, "Bye, Perimead!"
Pozzo [to Yoshi]: Yes, I would, but sometimes you've gotta be there to see the
 screen or whatever.
Perimead [Guest] has disconnected.
Ron [to Frizzy]: We will begin with basics: login, email and move to Web and
 file swapping.
Green Hey learn a foreign langauge to understand your students' problems
Yoshi nods at Pozzo.
Truna [to Green]: We tried Japanese last week...!
Frizzy bows gracefully.
Yoshi smiles at Truna.
Green kowtows to teacher
Ron [to Frizzy]: The program will last eight weeks, but the computer component
 will be frontloaded so that Ss and teachers can use computers in the other
 classes.
Truna says, "Sometimes I think teaching teachers how to use computers IS like
 teaching them a second language..!"
Frizzy [to Ron]: "Sounds good.  Then the tech stuff becomes internalized."
Gregor envisions a learning/mentoring pyramid...train a couple teachers and
 then have them train a couple teachers...
Yoshi says, "I have to begin with simple operations of computers and
 keyboarding here.  Most of the students don't have previous experience on
 computers even in this tech age."
Frizzy [to Gregor]: "That's exactly what I have in mind."
Ron [to Yoshi]: Students here are coming to class with more computer skills.
Truna [to Frizzy]: Like grains of rice on the chessboard!
Gregor [to Yoshi]: My classes have become pretty mixed...I might have a couple
 hackers in the same class with some people who haven't even used a typewriter
 before.
Frizzy [to Yoshi]: "I'm suggesting at my school that they invoke a requirement
 for all freshmen students to take a computer course their first semester,
 including tech stuff, ergonomics, ethics, etc."
Green says, "The cascade approach? Doesn't have such a high standing in
 education I think"
Ron [to Frizzy]: Good idea!
Frizzy beams with pride.
Yoshi [to Ron]: But I think it's doing them some good too.  I get to explain
 what a computer does and how they're connected to one another in the course
 of the instruction on the operation, not just facet how-to's of using the net.
Gregor [to Frizzy]: We're thinking of somethine along those lines too... a
 computer placement test at the beginning, with a required basics course for
 those who need it.
Ron [to Yoshi]: Certainly.  I didn't mean that the teacher does not need to
 introduce students to computers.  But I have to do less of that these days.
Yoshi agrees with Gregor and Frizzy.  "I have a few students who already know
 basics and keyboarding.  What I do is just bringing them up here at
 schMOOze;)"
Green says, "Can you start them off on email right from this basic level"
Ron [to Green]: Yes!
Gregor [to Ron]: We're getting there, too... it will be nice when "computer
 use" is a remedal course!
Frizzy will post to NETEACH the title/authors, etc, of a book she picked up at
 a conference re: intro computer classes designed for students across the
 curriculum (not computer science students).
Ron says, "Laughs at Gregor's "remedial course" comment."
Frizzy giggles.
Yoshi snickers.
Frizzy laughs at Gregor's typo of the word remedial. :P
Yoshi says, "technologically-handicapped?!"
Frizzy says, "Cyber-disabled?"
Gregor thwaps Frizzy with a roled-up newspaper. "BAD! BAD! BAD!"
Gregor corrects a typo:  roLLed.
Mr.C says, "The PC word is "compuphobic." or "Net-challenged""
Green says, "TEacher? Is this the end?"
Ron [to Gregor]: I like 'roled up.'
Gregor sees his typing skills going down the tubes before his very eyes.
The lag monster whisks Frizzy off to Paris for a romantic rendezvous.  They
 will return momentarily.
Yoshi is lagging...
Gregor has been caught by the nasty lag devil. Please help!!
Ron is fighting with the lag monster. A second please.
Green says, "I'm going."
Gregor says, "Well, kids, it's been an hour and 15...shall we draw this to a
 close?"
Frizzy nods.
Green bows
Frizzy's tummy says, "Grrrrrrrr!"
Green has disconnected.
Truna emerges victorious from her lag-encounter...but for HOW long!

Gregor puts a transparency on the screen...
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