Why Synchronous? Why Asynchronous?

NETEACH Nook
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A spacious classroom with a comfortable, lived-in feeling to it. In
addition to all the decorations brought by teachers from all parts
of the globe, there is a large, up-to-date world map with brightly
colored push-pins showing where NETEACHers have connected from. So
far, there are pins in Japan, Korea, Hong Kong, Australia, Greece,
UK, Brazil, Israel, Canada, France, Germany, Kuwait, Cyprus, and all
over the US.
You see Gregor, Colega, Venny, and Yojimbo here.
You see Teacher's Desk, Big Table, Bulletin Board, Beanbags, Fireside Bearskin, Kitchen Table, Wading Pool, and Hot Tub.
You see LCD Panel.
Obvious exits: out
Gregor says, "Let's start."
Gregor puts Transparency No.1 on the stage.

On the screen you see...
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             Welcome to NETEACH-L's MOO discussion sessions!

             (with much appreciation to schMOOze University
             and its fine players, programmers, and wizards!)

               Please note! Our sessions are always logged.
      By participating, you give permission to Greg Younger to allow
    access to the transcripts for research purposes at his discretion.
    Before using any part of our logs for research or publication, please
      obtain the permission of Greg Younger at youngerg@colorado.edu

                For a transcript, please see our web page:
                  http://www.dyvic.com/~greg/netmoo/

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Gregor puts Transparency No.2 on the stage.

On the screen you see...
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                      ***      INTRODUCTIONS      ***

     You are of course welcome to remain anonymous, but at this time
     we invite all of you who wish to do so to identify yourselves by
     your name and affiliation.
 

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Gregor is Greg Younger, Director of Instructional Systems Integration for Dyvic Innovations.
Gregor makes you all jump through the hoops. ;o)
Yojimbo  Is Michael Glass, English instructor at Sogang University, Korea
Colega says, "I'm actually Lonnie Turbee, Director of Educational Environments Development at Dyvic Innovations."
Gregor elbows Venny, who may be lagging.
Gregor says,"i'll go ahead and show the topic."
Colega nods.

Gregor puts Transparency No.3 on the stage.

On the screen you see...
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                *** Why Synchronous? Why Asynchronous?  ***

Proponents of asynchronous communication (webboards, email, etc.) for
language learning sometimes dismiss chatrooms and MOOs as being "less
effective" than asynchronous environments. MOOmaniacs and chat
aficionados may be equally ardent in arguments that realtime
communication is "better."

The argument begs the question: "Better for WHAT?"

A thorough understanding of specific goals and objectives for any online
activity should clarify which mode is better for which activity. Please
join us in discussing selection of appropriate technologies for specific
language learning tasks.

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Gregor says,"This topic was inspired by some conversations I've had with teachers in workshops on using the Internet for ESL instruction..."
Colega listens to Gregor.
Gregor says,"Let's start by coming to some basic agreements... is there anyone here who would argue that any *one* type of activity (f2f or online) can be used to reach every language learning/teaching objective?"
Colega stifles a guffaw.
Colega says, "Er... I would not argue that, Mr. Gregor."
Gregor grins. "You may laugh..."
Gregor says,"...but I don't know how many times I have had teachers reject a technology-based activity because it doesn't fill *every* instructional need. "
Yojimbo says, "no arguement here.."
Colega . o O ( Wow.. I hadn't thought of that! )
Gregor says,"For example, I've had teachers reject MOO because it doesn't allow students to practice pronunciation. They say, "Students shouldn't be sitting at computers typing to strangers on the other side of the world... they should be out communicating with people face to face!""
Colega says, "Yeah, right!  So who actually does that?"
Gregor says,"To me, that's like not assigning reading homework because it doesn't improve pronunciation!"
Colega giggles.
Yojimbo says, "one problem is that it does require keyboard skill"
Colega says, "This is not a problem, it is an opportunity!"
Gregor says,"Is that a problem or an opportunity? Or both?"
Colega falls on the floor.
Gregor reaches up to give Colega a highfive!
 <<< WHAM! >>>
FUM-BUL-LI-AH!!!!!
Gregor and Colega are connected at the frontal lobes.
Colega gets back up off the floor, misses the high-five, and tries to look pedagogically sound again.
Yojimbo says, "how is it an opportunity?"
Gregor says,"I'll give you that... it does require keyboarding skill. It also improves keyboarding!"
Yojimbo nods.
Colega says, "It's a life skill that *everyone* needs now.  Why not learn a language while you're getting that skill?"
Colega says, "And visa versa."
Yojimbo says, "my students seem to think keyboard are outdated..."
Colega says, "Are they all using speech recognition software now?"
Yojimbo says, "or at least a command line approach to computers is outdated"
Gregor says,""And by the same token, why type a's;dlfkgh 90 times to improve your typing instead of talking to an interesting person on the other side of the world?"
Colega nods.
Yojimbo says, "we don't have the support of voice activated software"
Yojimbo nods at Gregor.
Colega understands the resistance to command line approach to computers.
Colega says, "But, it's not a bad idea to learn how to compose, to spell, to be able to write a sentence."
Gregor does too... can't ignore the majority of teachers who never take to MOO.
Yojimbo says, "my students are a click and point generation and believe the media hype about all the wonderful things computers can do."
Yojimbo says, "all I'm saying is there can be a perception problem..."
Colega says, "Click and point.  Heh... if there were more of that in MOO, would they be happier? feel more at home?"
Colega nods.
Gregor [to Yojimbo]: really good point.
Colega says, "MOO does look outdated.  Nothig but text."
Colega picks the n up off the floor and sticks it in "nothig."
Yojimbo says, "but the students would also be more comfortable with pictures and not reading "
Gregor says,"Can you think of a way to a) turn that perception around or b) take advantage of that perception for some instructional purpose?"
Colega says, "Yeah, man, reading is a pain!"
Colega grins.
Colega says, "You know, instant messaging programs are enormously popular, and they do involve a blend of images and text."
Yojimbo says, "I had some success this semester. I think it was from patient explaining and peas to put aside preconceptions."
Gregor hands Yojimbo an L
Yojimbo . o O ( are we getting off the topic? )
Gregor laughs. "Yes, a little..."
Gregor says,"But this is interesting."
Colega grins in agreement.
Gregor says,"But let me steer it back a little..."
Gregor says,"What activities lend themselves more to realtime cmc, and which are more appropriate  for asynchronous?"
Gregor says,"errr... let me rephrase that..."
Gregor says,"What LANGUAGE LEARNING OBJECTIVES are more likely to be met in realtime cmc, and which are more appropriate  for asynchronous?"
Gregor says,"Should we use the blackboard to brainstorm?"
Yojimbo says, "Student's really enjoy 'chatting' to people in other locations, but I've yet to see a well organised comference situation."
Colega says, "Seems to me that any time you want something that is carefully composed, asynch is better than real-time communication."
Gregor cleans the blackboard with a soapy sponge...
Gregor . o O ( small group... let's just talk. )
Yojimbo says, "that's not to say they don't get valuable language exchange or info"
Colega says, "When I want to think in an organized way, I have to do it slowly, carefully, in some kind of a document that I send asynchronously."
Gregor [to Yojimbo]: Could you create a lesson plan that takes advantage of students' enjoyment of chat?
Colega says, "But when I want to brainstorm, be especially creative, and work off other people's energy, I prefer this type of environment - synchronous communication."
Gregor says,"And is the dearth of well-organized conference sessions due to organization being impossible or difficult in realtime chat?"
Yojimbo says, "i believe that the real advantage of this MOO environment is in exloring and discovering... but that's not taking advantage of the chat function directly"
Colega says, "brb..."
Gregor says,"Or is it because teachers haven't thought out how to organize better in this environment?"
You tell Kipp [Guest] that it may enter.
Kipp [Guest] is going to try to join you.
Kipp [Guest] has arrived.
Kipp [Guest] waves!
Gregor howdies Kipp. "Glad you could make it!
Yojimbo says, "conferencing can be done but it needs organisation and the student should understand how to use the vehicle"
Yojimbo waves at Kipp [Guest].
Gregor [to Yojimbo]: So... massive amounts of prep to really get the benefits of it.
Kipp [Guest] [to Gregor]: My boss is making me work overtime today.
Yojimbo says, "I don't know about massive... and it depends on the 'vehicle'"
Gregor [to Kipp [Guest]]: type PEER 3 ON LCD
Gregor [to Kipp [Guest]]: your boss is a slavedriver.
Kipp [Guest] grins.
Colega [to Kipp [Guest]]: Could you introduce yourself to Yojimbo?
Yojimbo says, "but for this moo I'd say at least one session to get familiar with it and maybe another session to explain the purpose and method of conferencing"
Colega [to Yojimbo]: Could you tell me just what you mean by conferencing?  I'm not clear on that.
Gregor [to Yojimbo]: Are you saying that you find that the environment here to be a better tool for language learning than the conferencing capabilities?
Yojimbo says, "I mean students in one location talking to students in another location to exchange information on a specific topic.."
Gregor nods.
Kipp [Guest] [to Yojimbo]: Hi, I'm Michael Mudge, Vice President of Dyvic Innovations...  I am also the co-archwizard of MundoHispano.
Kipp [Guest] shakes Yojimbo's hand.
Yojimbo [to Gregor]: the conferencing potential is here... but perhaps there are too many distractions and too many instructions needed for easy successful meetings
Yojimbo smiles at Kipp [Guest].
Colega [to Yojimbo]: Okay, thanks.  That clarifies it...
Gregor [to Yojimbo]: Great point.
Gregor says,"Let me bring us back to the stated topic then..."
Colega [to Yojimbo]: In all the years I've used MOO for teaching, in all the workshops I've done with teachers, I have *never* gotten any of them to do what I wanted them to do, i.e. stay on a specific topic.
Colega says, "and the adults are always worse than the kids!"
Yojimbo smiles at Colega.
Kipp [Guest] [to Yojimbo]: I'm sorry I came in late..  "here" as in within MOOs and other environments such as this one?
Gregor says,"Colega says asynchronous online communication is better for producing well thought out pieces of writing."
Yojimbo [to Kipp [Guest]]: when I say here, I mean Schmooze uni
Kipp [Guest] nods.
Colega says, "The problem with MOO is that it doesn't fit well into a traditional teaching style.  It gives tremendous power to the learner, sometimes so much that the learner feels lost if they don't have some task to at least *start* with."
Gregor writes on the blackboard...
Gregor writes on the blackboard...
Gregor writes on the blackboard...
Yojimbo [to Gregor]: I would agree to some extent. By habit students don't try to structure messages well on a BBS
==================== BLACKBOARD ===========================

1)  Colega says asynchronous online communication is better for producing well thought out pieces of writing.
2)  Yojimbo says MOO is better for exploration and discovery
3)  Colega says that realtime chat is better for brainstorming.

===========================================================
Flemmex whooshes in like a..um...plagiarist.
Flemmex says, "Hi there!"
Flemmex waves.
Yojimbo smiles at Flemmex.
Gregor says,"(just summarizing some key points.)"
Colega says, "Hey, Flemmex!"
Flemmex says, "Hey Colega! :)"
Gregor says,"Hey, Mex!"
Flemmex says, "Hey Greg!"
Kipp [Guest] waves to Flemmex.
Colega [to Flemmex]: Could you introduce yourself to Kipp here?
Flemmex beams around generally.
Flemmex says, "Sure - hi Kipp."
Flemmex shakes paws with Kipp.
Gregor . o O ( wow, what suave manners! )
[Kipp [Guest] peeks into No.3.]
Flemmex [to Kipp [Guest]]: I'm Mex Butler from RMIT University in Victoria, Australia.
Yojimbo gasps in shock!
Kipp [Guest] [to Flemmex]: Nice to meet you.  I am Michael Mudge, vice-president of Dyvic Innovations... And co-archwizard of MundoHispano.
Colega [to Yojimbo]: I'm still thinking about the problems of trying to keep students organized enough so that they complete a task in-MOO.
Flemmex produces smelling salts for Yojimbo.
Gregor [to Kipp [Guest]]: I've told you about Flemmex... e's done superb work with literacy students using MOO.
Colega [to Yojimbo]: What's the shock?
Gregor [to Colega]: I think he spilled his ice cold drink in his lap.
Colega giggles.
Colega says, "Sue the freezer maker!"
Flemmex [to Colega]: Is it significantly different, iyo, from tryng to get them to finish other tasks, outMOO?
Colega grins.
Yojimbo [to Colega]: I try to exploit the 'window on the world' potential of the internet. and therefore chat can allow students to test their real world knowledge.
Colega says, "Heh heh... no, I suppose not!  "
Colega says, "Oh yeah!  That's right.... There are good skill-getting places and good skill-using places..."
Colega says, "And you can get skills here, but it's really best for using those skills that you may actually have learned in the first place elsewhere, like in a classroom or in some kind of standalone software."
Yojimbo nods at Colega.
Colega says, "So they learn how to think in terms of using, say, articles, in the classroom, but then practice using them in here."
Gregor nods. "Or they study instances of authentic article use in a static environment like the web, and put their theories to the test here."
Colega says, "Perhaps the asynch materials from web-based classes are those skill-getting places, while the synch places like MOO are the skill-using places."
Yojimbo says, "not sure about that.... "
Yojimbo says, "the emphasis here can be on communication rather than accuracy"
Flemmex writes on the blackboard...
==================== BLACKBOARD ===========================

1)  Colega says asynchronous online communication is better for producing well thought out pieces of writing.
2)  Yojimbo says MOO is better for exploration and discovery
3)  Colega says that realtime chat is better for brainstorming.
4)  I suspect that people who aren't sure of themselves as online entities might feel more at home with asynchronous stuff because they can take more time and think about what they want to say.

===========================================================
Colega says, "You use whatever skills you have to communicate.  Yes, I'd agree with you on the focus on communication in here."
Gregor says,"So you could focus on discourse forms, vocabulary, etc. here, and focus on grammar, spelling, etc. in asynchronous environments."
Yojimbo nods at Gregor.
Flemmex would like to hear a bit more from Kipp
Venny says, "Hii, I'm Cheng-caho Su, instructor on NTJCPA college, Taiwan. sorry for my lagging"
Colega says, "Could it be divided up function/notion?  Like here is the function place?"
Kipp [Guest] says, "I could do a song and dance... :)"
Flemmex [to Kipp [Guest]]: I'm no longer specifically in language teaching - is your background more general?
Flemmex grins at Kipp [Guest].
Flemmex [to Kipp [Guest]]: Please do!
Kipp [Guest] says, "I don't feel quite up to speed enough to pitch in :)"
Gregor nods. "He could. I've seen him sing and heard him dance."
Flemmex [to Kipp [Guest]]: In what sense? MOOing or the content?
Kipp [Guest] says, "I'm more of an administrator and programmer..."
Kipp [Guest] blinks at Gregor.
Colega says, "Kipp is modest.  He's the tech-head behind MundoHispano and several other MUDs he's been archwizard of."
Flemmex [to Kipp [Guest]]: so it's a content thing?
Kipp [Guest] nods at Flemmex.
Colega [to Venny]: Glad your lag let you in!  Have you been able to read any of this?
Flemmex [to Kipp [Guest]]: Forget language teaching/learning (e says making an executive decision) what do you think about the pros and cons of synch and asynch in general?
Venny [to Colega]: I read some.
Smoody is going to try to join you.
Gregor [to Venny]: I'll post a log to the neteach moo site later.
Smoody has arrived.
Colega says, "Hey, Smoody!"
Flemmex says, "Yea Smoody!"
Colega waves.
Flemmex waves at Smoody.
Venny thanks you profusely.
Gregor [to Flemmex]: You mean for like collaborating or learning or both or what?
Smoody says hey to everyone
Flemmex [to Gregor]: yes
Gregor greets Smoody.
Kipp [Guest] says, "I have been integrating multimedia and MOOs for about 6 years...  If used with language learning, it's a perfect product..."
Gregor [to Flemmex]: I thought you did.
Smoody gets some morning coffee
Flemmex [to Kipp [Guest]]: What makes you think that, and what about other stuff?
Venny says, "to kipp how perfect?"
Kipp [Guest] [to Flemmex]: Well, it's really only my opinion... And there is alot of experience that has led me to that.
Gregor says,"I think if not for the opaque and uninviting interface, MOO *would be* perfect for language learning."
Yojimbo nods at Gregor.
Colega has been working in the world of CD-ROM up until recently.  The images and sound are very attractive to certain types of learners, but the lack of real communication is de-motivating.
Venny says, "But MOOing(snch) may waste more time and money."
Gregor says,"It provides a way to display static info. It has internal mailing lists and bulletin boards for asynchronous communication. It allows careful composing and revision of any type of writing. And the virtual context makes a perfect environment for the realtime stuff to take place."
Kipp [Guest] says, "My career started when I had a conversation with someone on a MOO who had only been speaking english, only on that MOO, for 3 months and had gained quite a bit of fluency."
Colega [to Venny]: So you'd have to be very sure that your students were going to learn a lot for the time (expensive) that they're connected, right?
Colega [to Flemmex]: Do you pay for local calls by the minute?
Colega says, "The time in the beautiful lake country around Syracuse is now 9:04 p.m. on Wednesday, 11/29/00"
Kipp [Guest] says, "BRB -- I'm going to see if I can get Jon to log on too."
Colega nods to Kipp.
Venny nods at Colega.
Gregor sees the time and wants to keep going, if it's OK with everyone else.
Yojimbo says, "are there many other moos that are friendly communities like this one?"
Flemmex [to Colega]: No
Colega [to Smoody]: And you?  Do you pay for local phone calls?
Flemmex [to Colega]: Local calls are about 24c flat rate for however long
Colega [to Venny]: I believe you do pay for those calls, don't you?
Flemmex [to Colega]: But internet access can be expensive
Kipp [Guest] [to Yojimbo]: Of course... They all have their perks tho.
Gregor [to Yojimbo]: I've visited a lot of MOOs, and each has its own culture...
Smoody [to Colega]: "I don't pay for local phone calls
Gregor says,"People here seem to be pretty exceptionally helpful."
Colega nods to Flemmex.
Flemmex [to Gregor]: Here=schMOOze?
Gregor nods to Mex.
Kipp [Guest] says, "I imagine GrassRoots would be pretty friendly."
Yojimbo says, "I saw some student postings on a mailing list that criticised chatting for the nature of the environment"
Kipp [Guest] says, "I know MeadoMOO is, but I'm not sure if it's still up."
Yojimbo nods at Flemmex.
Colega [to Yojimbo]: A simple chat environment?  Or MOO?
Flemmex says, "Possums, I have to go talk to my baas. I will idle here and read back later."
Yojimbo says, "they were talking about simple chat environments, i think"
Colega waves to Mex.
Gregor [to Flemmex]: talk ta ya.
Colega [to Yojimbo]: All the difference in the world.
Flemmex [to Gregor]: coolest
Flemmex waves generally to everyone and hugs those who like that sort of thing.
Flemmex goes idle.
Colega just finished revising an old article she'd written about the difference between MOO and IRC (chat) for the language learner.  But Gregor hasn't finished editing it!  ;-)
Gregor [to Colega]: I haven't gotten around to reading your new draft of the MOO vs IRC paper... but you made some really great points in the original.
Gregor grins.
Venny says, "Generally, people here are very friendly."
Yojimbo hugs Venny with a warm and loving embrace.
Gregor [to Yojimbo]: Were these student-students, or teachers taking a course?
Colega says, "Well, for now, the old version is at: http://home.twcny.rr.com/lonnieturbee/mooyirc.html"
Yojimbo [to Gregor]: real students
Gregor says,"That's very interesting. Very insightful of them, I think."
Colega personally detests plain chat.
Colega says, "Context!!! That's what's missing from asynchronous sites."
Colega says, "And we all know how important that is for LL."
Kipp [Guest] says, "I'm probably not as fascinated with the language-learning aspects of MOOs as Gregor and Colega are..."
Smoody says, "I hope I don't get too off topic, but since Gregor mentioned Colega's paper with IRC . . . Many of my students in Hong Kong are proficient ICQ users.  They seem to measure other communication experiences against ICQ."
Yojimbo says, "I guess I'm harking back to student perception problems... Many students assume that a MOO is simply a chat vehicle"
Kipp [Guest] says, "...but I am quite interested in the psychological things that happen when someone is on a MOO."
Kipp [Guest] says, "Context plays a very large role in different things that happen psychologically."
Gregor says,"Some of the asynchronous web-based online learning sites are striving for CONTEXT and SENSE OF PLACE."
Colega [to Smoody]: And have they ever built their own home in a MOO?
Yojimbo nods at Smoody.
Gregor cites daves CAFE, and ENGLISHTOWN, for example.
Smoody [to Colega]: "No, I brought a few classes to schMOOze and only 2-3 students (out of around 80) made much effort to get dorm rooms, describe themselves, etc.
Colega [to Smoody]: Did they chat a lot, though?
Venny says, "But Moo has a sense of community that web-based online sites don't have"
Colega [to Venny]: Bingo!
Gregor [to Smoody]: what did the others say? What was their eval in terms of how it measures up to IRC for them?
Kipp [Guest] says, "The sense of place, the context, the community and a feeling of ownership is a mega impact on addiction."
Yojimbo says, "would there be a 'resource shortage' problem if classes of students were set a task to build their own home?"
Jonathan [Guest] is going to try to join you.
Jonathan [Guest] has arrived.
Gregor grins and Howdies Jonathan.
Kipp [Guest] says, "Which means very high motivation... Which translates to contact hours and a desire to learn."
Jonathan [Guest] bows.
Gregor's son runs into the room waving a bloody tooth and shouting about the tooth fairy.
Venny . o O ( Motivation is important! )
Kipp [Guest] [to Yojimbo]: Are you asking if the machine would need upgrades to allow that sort of building?
Smoody [to Colega]: "The students seemed to do only the mimimum of what was required for assignments.  The cool thing is that those 2-3 students did find a home at schMOOze.  They even visited back and forth with a Japanese girl from schMOOze.  Those students spent a lot of time chatting just for fun
Smoody yeehaws for the tooth of Gregor's son.
Venny says, "But before students get interested MOOing, they have to overcome technical MOOing skills"
Venny says, "I had about 80 students MOOing here last semester."
Colega [to Yojimbo]: Do you mean, would there be enough people to teach them how to do it?  Or are you asking about technical resources (the things Kipp responds to)?
Gregor nods to Venny. "And that's probably why Smoody's students like IRC better... you just jump in and start talking."
Colega falls on the floor!
Colega says, "Wow, Venny!  80 students!"
Venny says, "But there are only about 10 of them still come now"
Yojimbo [to Kipp [Guest]]: here we have about 150 students a semester doing an internet class. I imagain if they all had to build a room, and other schools did the same, it would start to fill disk space.... or at least it could make for a large and potentially confusing dorm virtual space
Venny says, "Most of them think MOOing can learn something."
Gregor [to Yojimbo]: Sorry, I had missed your question before because of the bloody tooth thing.
Colega says, "I think it's the lousy interface.  It is decidedly unfriendly for the majority of users.  In ICQ you don't think about having to do anything but chat.  In MOO, there's an expectation that you'll learn how to do all these things that are difficult for the average person."
Yojimbo nods at Colega.
Kipp [Guest] says, "Ah yes, with numbers that big, there should be a sort of building guideline.  From what I understand of Schmooze, the dorm hallways are neat an organized... but once you enter someone's room, you're on your own.  As chaotic as it may sound, it works well, especially since people can teleport."
Venny nods at Colega.
Smoody [to Gregor]: "The few times that I've used schMOOze in class the students have complained that the interface is not interesting.  Actually, I think there are cultural differences in on-line tastes as well.  Often when I look at webpages created here in Hong Kong, I think that there is just TOO MUCH going on in the page:  too much color, too many fonts, too many graphics, and too much movement.  Students though like that visual noise.  I really think there's something cultural going on (and I certainly hope that it's not an age thing).  :)
Yojimbo [to Kipp [Guest]]: perhaps not a confusing space but certainly a boring one to explore
Gregor [to Smoody]: It's an age thing, grandma. ;o)
Kipp [Guest] [to Yojimbo]: It's often the structure that makes it boring.  People who are "turned loose" have pride in their work and try to make it as interesting as possible.
Venny grins at Yojimbo.
Colega [to Yojimbo]: You find MOO in general to be boring?  Or schmooze in particular?
Colega [to Gregor]: It's an amateur/professional thing.  Amateurs the world over make lousy, jumpy, difficult-to-read, loaded websites.
Gregor [to Colega]: That's true enough.
Kipp [Guest] [to Yojimbo]: And as far as technical implications of that many rooms...  LambdaMOO has had a free-for-all building policy for almost 10 years.  The technology has handled it well enough.
Yojimbo says, "I don't find it boring but I'm thinking about students exploring a drom with the number of rooms that could exist if students on mass had to build dorm rooms"
Gregor [to Yojimbo]: With 150 students, schMOOze would indeed be swamped by the dorm requests etc.
Colega says, "Making a very simple, elegant, useful website - or any interface, for that matter - is really difficult."
Colega [to Yojimbo]: Have you ever visited MundoHispano?
Yojimbo [to Colega]: no.
Colega grins.
Venny says, "But I think MOO is better than IRC, especially thinking on safty"
Gregor nods to Yojimbo. "There are already more than 300 rooms in the dorm here."
Colega says, "Kipp and I are the co-archwizards of that MOO, and we have had different ideas about how to let it grow."
Colega says, "It's been in existence for nearly as long as schMOOze, but it has literally thousands of rooms."
Yojimbo nods.
Colega says, "There are over a dozen countries represented, with flights from Madrid to every one of them."
Smoody is serious about how culture influences student's on-line preferences and wonders if anyone has read anything related to that topic.
Yojimbo [to Colega]: isn't it a spanish lang moo?
Colega nods to Yojimbo.
Colega says, "And there *are* cultural differences between the way Mundo works and the way this one works."
Venny [to Smoody]: students here prefer BBS.
Gregor [to Venny]: here = taiwan?
Venny nods at Gregor.
Yojimbo [to Venny]: what do they like about BBSs
Colega says, "We have few rules at Mundo.  You have to be nice to others, and you have to be a native speaker logging on from any city you want to build in there.  But build cities, they did!"
Venny says, "College students here are indulged in BBS"
Colega says, "By my own rules, I can't build public areas in MundoHispano!"
Colega laughs.
Gregor [to Colega]: What, you don't have spanish speakers in Syracuse?
Colega says, "I never once got a complaint from any user that it was boring there."
Venny [to Yojimbo]: They: talk, post messages on different boards
Gregor could build a Spanglish Colorado in Mundo. ;o)
Colega [to Gregor]: But they have to be logging on from the city they're building - in a spanish-speaking country.
Yojimbo [to Venny]: long messages? one-liners?
Colega [to Gregor]: We found that native speakers in the US lose their native-ness!
Kipp [Guest] says, "There's only one uninteresting area in MundoHispano -- and it's my home :)"
Colega laughs.
Gregor [to Kipp [Guest]]: Add my office to that list. ;o)
Venny [to Yojimbo]: long messages (about a screen)
Kipp [Guest] [to Gregor]: Darn, I need a bigger post-it now.
Gregor says,"Gang, I'm sorry to cut this off.."
Yojimbo [to Venny]: do they like composing or reading? do they feel it is less stressful/
Colega says, "Does anyone in the US do BBS any more?"
Colega [to Gregor]: You could end it, but we could stay, yes?
Kipp [Guest] [to Colega]: I'm sure...  It's a circle kind of thing though... If you're not in the circle, it's pretty hard to find.
Venny [to Yojimbo]:  They like both: reading others' and expressing their own idea
Gregor says,"But we've run 30 minutes over, and we will be repeating the topic in ... about 13 hours."
Smoody wonders if the concept of "ownership" appeals to some and not to others.  "I like the created spaces in schMOOze, but I suppose for some (like my students) they don't want to invest the time
Yojimbo says, "I should go now, anyway.... bye everyone."
Yojimbo waves.
Gregor [to Yojimbo]: thanks!
Venny [to Yojimbo]: BBS becomes a very special college culture here in Taiwan
Kipp [Guest] waves to Yojimbo.
Smoody [to Gregor]: "Thanks for doing this!  I really intend to come to the next session.  I'm just dropping in today (on my last teaching day of the semester!).  I need to tie up some loose ends for class now.

Gregor puts Transparency No.5 on the stage.

On the screen you see...
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