Applying the Five C's to Online Language Learning

NETEACH Nook
------- ----
A spacious classroom with a comfortable, lived-in feeling to it. In
addition to all the decorations brought by teachers from all parts
of the globe, there is a large, up-to-date world map with brightly
colored push-pins showing where NETEACHers have connected from. So
far, there are pins in Japan, Korea, Hong Kong, Australia, Greece,
UK, Brazil, Israel, Canada, France, Germany, Kuwait, Cyprus, Taiwan,
and all over the US.
You see Teacher's Desk, Big Table, Bulletin Board, Beanbags, Fireside Bearskin, Kitchen Table, Wading Pool, and Hot Tub.
You see Chrissy, Colega, Smoody, KeikoS, Gregor, and Miao standing about.
You see LCD Panel and @ONE Demo.
Obvious exits: out
Gregor says, "How about we focus on some of the areas we weren't able to go into enough depth on at the last session?"
Miao nods at Gregor.
Gregor says, "Let me start the session with the usual thingy for the transcripts."
Colega says, "Go for it Greg!"

Gregor puts Transparency No.1 on the stage.

On the screen you see...
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             Welcome to NETEACH-L's MOO discussion sessions!

             (with much appreciation to schMOOze University
             and its fine players, programmers, and wizards!)

               Please note! Our sessions are always logged.
      By participating, you give permission to Greg Younger to allow
    access to the transcripts for research purposes at his discretion.
    Before using any part of our logs for research or publication, please
          obtain the permission of Greg Younger at greg@dyvic.com

                For a transcript, please see our web page:
                    http://www.dyvic.com/~greg/netmoo/

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Gregor puts Transparency No.2 on the stage.

On the screen you see...
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                      ***      INTRODUCTIONS      ***

     You are of course welcome to remain anonymous, but at this time
     we invite all of you who wish to do so to identify yourselves by
     your name and affiliation.
 

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Gregor is Greg Younger, yada yada yada.
Gregor giggles.
Gregor [to Chrissy]: Have you met everyone here?
Colega says, "Oh, come one, for posterity and anyone findinng the archives through a search engine... who are you?"
Smoody is Suzan Moody from the Chinese University of Hong Kong
Colega is Lonnie Turbee, Director of Educational Environment Development at Dyvic Innovations, Inc.
Chrissy says, "Chrissy is a research student in Institute of Education, U. of London"
Gregor is Director of Instructional Systems Integration for Dyvic Innovations, making language learning software for communicating through the Internet.
KeikoS is Keiko Schneider, Saboten Web Design, New Mexico, USA
Miao is Jenyi Wu from Kingston, ON. Now trying to graduate later in Apr. from U. of Toronto.
KeikoS shakes hands with Chrissy
Miao shakes a paw with Chrissy.
Gregor says, "As I said before, since all of us but Chrissy were at the session last night (or "earlier today" for those in Asia and Oz)..."
Chrissy thanks keikoS for his/her friendship.
Gregor says, "Let's focus on some of the areas we weren't able to go into enough depth on at the last session."
Colega is thrilled to see students here.  They are the hope for ... for....
Smoody [to Gregor]: "sounds good
Chrissy  thanks Miao for his/her friendship, too.
Miao bows at Colega.
Gregor says, "Have y'all ever used the "blackboard" feature here?"
KeikoS bows to Chrissy

Gregor puts Transparency No.3 on the stage.

Miao smiles at Chrissy.
On the screen you see...
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          *** Applying the Five C's to Online Language Learning ***

ACTFL (the American Council on Teaching Foreign Languages), in
collaboration with other language teaching organizations, has
published a set of standards for language instruction whose goals
can be summarized by "the Five C's:" Communication, Cultures,
Connections, Comparisons, and Communities. This mnemonic describes
the goals of content standards for language instruction: what
students should know and what they should be able to do.

Is it possible to successfully reach all five of these goal areas
in a completely online language instruction scenario? If yes, how?
If no, what is missing and how can we rectify it?

    (see http://www.actfl.org/ to retrieve the 5 C's document)
    (But don't forget to keep coming back to this window!! :o)

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Smoody needs a blackboard refresher
Gregor will put up instructions... just a minute..
KeikoS appreciates all this because she has to get ready for her presentation about 5C TODAY!
Gregor polishes off his second cuppa with that distinctive coffee-induced lipsmacking "Ahhhhhhh" routine.
Colega likes Keiko's style.

Gregor puts Transparency No.10 on the stage.

On the screen you see...
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                              A REMINDER...

               Please note! Our sessions are always logged.
      By participating, you give permission to Greg Younger to allow
    access to the transcripts for research purposes at his discretion.
    Before using any part of our logs for research or publication, please
          obtain the permission of Greg Younger at greg@dyvic.com

                For a transcript, please see our web page:
                  http://www.dyvic.com/~greg/netmoo/

              Contact Greg Younger to suggest future topics!

             ******     Thanks for participating!     ******

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Gregor says, "OOps!"

Gregor puts Transparency No.9 on the stage.

On the screen you see...
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We can use the BLACKBOARD, a feature of this virtual classroom, to
facilitate the brainstorming process. To add a line of text to the
blackboard, anyone can type:

              writeb <message>
 

              writeb The net is all about communication!

  To see what has been written, type:

              look black  (or just L black)

         Feel free to toss some ideas up onto the blackboard now.

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Gregor blushes as he fumbles his slides.
Gregor says, "Let's use the blackboard to suggest a few topics for more in-depth discussion."
KeikoS says, "OK."
KeikoS writes on the blackboard...
KeikoS grins that is my leraning scenario
Gregor writes on the blackboard...
Colega writes on the blackboard...
Gregor says, "(any questions about how to write on the board?)"
Miao writes on the blackboard...
==================== BLACKBOARD ===========================

1)  penpal project introduction
2)  the special knowledge you get by understanding distinctive vocabulary in a foreign language that can't be translated into your own native language
3)  How does community make language-learning happen?  And what Internet applications foster community - and why?
4)  collaborative MOO project

===========================================================
Gregor says, "Others?"
Gregor says, "Let's relate each of these to the 5 C's..."
Gregor says, "Shall I flash those slides up as a quick reminder?"
Colega says, "1) sounds like communication to me."
Colega nods.
Colega has memorized exactly one C.
Colega grins.
Gregor juggles his slides.

Gregor puts Transparency No.4 on the stage.

On the screen you see...
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                         COMMUNICATION

*Communication* is the heart of second language study, whether the
communication takes place face-to-face, in writing, or across
centuries through the reading of literature.

Standard 1.1: Students engage in conversations, provide and obtain
 information, express feelings and emotions, and exchange opinions.
Standard 1.2: Students understand and interpret written and spoken
 language on a variety of topics.
Standard 1.3: Students present information, concepts, and ideas to
 an audience of listeners or readers on a variety of topics.

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Smoody writes on the blackboard...
KeikoS [to Colega]: Well, I hope it is covering all five (that is my point of presentation)
Gregor says, "everyone shout 'NEXT' when you're ready for me to move on. :o)"
KeikoS says, "next"
Smoody says, "next"
Miao says, "xevt!"
Miao grins.

Gregor puts Transparency No.5 on the stage.

On the screen you see...
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                             CULTURES

Through the study of other languages, students gain a knowledge and
understanding of the *cultures* that use that language and, in fact,
cannot truly master the language until they have also mastered the
cultural contexts in which the language occurs.

Standard 2.1: Students demonstrate an understanding of the
 relationship between the practices and perspectives of the culture
 studied.
Standard 2.2: Students demonstrate an understanding of the
 relationship between the products and perspectives of the culture
 studied.

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Gregor trims Miao's claws to facilitate more accurate typing. ;o)
Colega laughs!
Colega says, "Communication, Cultures, Connections, Comparisons, and Communities "
Miao [to Gregor]: that will be nice.
Colega couldn't resist.
Smoody says, "next"
KeikoS says, "nexr"
KeikoS grins

Gregor puts Transparency No.6 on the stage.

On the screen you see...
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                            CONNECTIONS

Learning languages provides *connections* to the additional bodies
of knoledge that may be unavailable to the monolingual English
speaker.

Standard 3.1: Students reinforce and further their knowledge of other
 disciplines through the foreign language.
Standard 3.2: Students acquire information and recognize the
 distinctive viewpoints that are only available through the foreign
 language and its cultures.

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KeikoS [to Gregor]: is this what they had at ACTFL?
Colega says, "Number 2 on the blackboard is about connections."
Colega [to KeikoS]: These are the ACTFL standards.
KeikoS wants better description - caused a lot of misunderstandings last night.
Gregor scribbles a note about Standard 3.2 relating to special vocab, number 2 on the blackboard, and grins at Colega.
KeikoS [to gregor&colega]: How about intro?
Colega says, "You know... I think they must have worked very long and hard to write these standards, but it's true, they're still confusing."
Gregor [to KeikoS]: Let's finish the slides, then we'll get back to this one.
Colega says, "Slap 'em up, Greg!"
Miao says, "yeah, next."
Gregor [to Colega]: I think that's what happens when you try to boil complex principles down to soundbite form.
KeikoS says, "next"

Gregor puts Transparency No.7 on the stage.

On the screen you see...
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                            COMPARISONS

Through *comparisons* and contrasts with the language being studied,
students develop insight into the nature of language and the concept
of culture and realize that there are multiple ways of viewing the
world.

Standard 4.1: Students demonstrate understanding of the nature of
 language through comparisons of the language studied and their own.
Standard 4.2: Students demonstrate understanding of the concept of
 culture through comparisons of the cultures studied and their own.

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Colega says, "But... language learning is *simple!*  Just ask any native speaker!"
Colega grins wryly.
Gregor grins and elbows Colega.
KeikoS grins
Smoody says, "next"
Miao seconds.

Gregor puts Transparency No.8 on the stage.

On the screen you see...
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                            COMMUNITIES

Together, these elements enable the student of languages to participate
in multilingual *communities* at home and around the world in a variety
of contexts and in culturally appropriate ways.

Standard 5.1: Students use the language both within and beyond the
 school setting.
Standard 5.2: Students show evidence of becoming life-long learners by
 using the language for personal enjoyment and enrichment.

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Colega once worked where the native speakers of English  - like even the programmers - thought they could write teaching content.
Colega giggles.
Colega says, "Personal enjoyment!!!  Do we see much of that in-MOO?"
Colega laughs.
KeikoS agrees with Colega - that is why this is my favorite
Gregor laughs out loud. "Just like those ads in college newspapers... 'Can you speak English? Travel the wolrd and teach english overseas!'"
Colega ROTFL!!!!
Miao smiles.
Colega says, "My guitarist  fiance has a T-shirt with an ad on it that says "Learn to play the guitar in 3 minutes!""
Gregor grins. "OK, let's start with KeikoS' suggestion about penpal projects."
Colega says, "Okay - back to the first page that tells us who thunk up these standards."
KeikoS laughs
Colega looks at Greg...
Gregor looks back at Colega...
Colega says, "I think someone wanted to know who wrote the standards."
Colega says, "Can you get us that URL again - in one of the first slides?"
Colega waves another cup of coffee under Greg's nose.
Gregor nods. "http://www.actfl.org/"
KeikoS knows who modified to Japanese, but the very beginning one? No...
Colega says, "Anyone in here ever been to an ACTFL conference or played around their website before?"
Gregor quotes from the executive summary: "In 1993, a coalition of four national organizations, (ACTFL, Am. Assoc. of Teachers of French, German, and Spanish & Portuguese) received funding to develop standards for foreign language education, grades K-12."
KeikoS has to admit she doesn't like the web site very much, but ACTFL is her favorite conference on earth
Gregor has never been to the conference.
KeikoS says, "Next year will be DC"
Gregor will be going next year, inshallah.
Colega says, "At that site, you click on Special Projects, and then on National Standards Project."
KeikoS needs to proposal together this month
Miao nods.
Gregor says, "Wasn't the deadline on Tuesday 1-2?"
Colega says, "Er... I think the deadline for proposals was Jan 2."
KeikoS says, "I am doing through NCJLT, which is 15th."
KeikoS nods
Colega says, "Anyway, a good place to look around, especially if you're teaching English as a Foreign Language."
Gregor says, "Anyway, KeikoS, you wanted to discuss penpal projects as they relate to the 5 Cs...."
KeikoS nods
Colega says, "Sounds like one-on-one Communication to me."
Colega [to KeikoS]: Is this penpals with peers or native speakers?
KeikoS says, "Let's say we find penepals as a whole class."
Colega [to Gregor]: What's the name of Bruce Roberts' huge penpal project that's been going on since the early 90's?
KeikoS says, "through IECC the set up is an American class looking for Japanese students."
KeikoS nods at least in her mind
Colega [to KeikoS]: That's it!
Gregor nods. "Couldn't think of the acronym, but that's it."
KeikoS says, "You can also do presentational 1.3 by say making a web page before you actually correspond."
Colega says, "Wow!  Excellent idea!"
KeikoS says, "As students introduce each other, cultures comes in."
Colega says, "And community by having a web board going for the two classes."
KeikoS says, "and of course comparisons."
Miao nods.
KeikoS [to Colega]: or even email listserv
Colega says, "Sometimes people lose their penpal for some reason - and you want to make it easy for them to find another one."
Gregor says, "And if you can find penpals of a specific academic or professional discipline, you can do the connections with other subject areas."
KeikoS says, "Now, the trickiest is comparisons."
KeikoS [to Gregor]: Yeahhh.
KeikoS says, "SO far I have gotten as far as talk about geography"
Miao nods to Keiko.
Gregor says, "What age group are you working with. KeikoS?"
KeikoS says, "assuming this is one of the first thing we do in Japanese 101 and nobody know where exactly Japan is..."
KeikoS grins
KeikoS says, "I was thinking any age with any group."
KeikoS says, "but I was imagining a class."
Colega says, "I'd wait awhile and just see what they come up with.  I think those things take time to come out.  Maybe remind them to think about comparing while they're "conversing" with their penpal."
Gregor says, "Well, I'm thinking that the things you might compare might differ with age group...."
KeikoS nods to Gregor
Gregor says, "With little kids, you might compare...ummm... favorite games or TV shows or storybooks..."
KeikoS says, "Communities, you got it with this project!"
Gregor says, "With teens, you might compare dating practices and the like."
Colega says, "I believe it's important to give them *something* to do - like a topic they could do comparisons on - but make sure they know they don't have to stick to that if they find something more interesting."
Gregor [to Colega]: Great point.
Miao nods.
KeikoS says, "Let me quote something from Japanese standards document?  Is that OK?"
Gregor [to KeikoS]: Please!
KeikoS says, "Technology: In implemeing these fuidelines, instructors should remain aware of advances in technology which may accelerate or enhance the achivement of these goals and standard within the classroom."
KeikoS says, "bad typing sorry, but that is the first sentence."
Lesley is going to try to join you.
Lesley has arrived.
KeikoS says, "5C is MADE to take advantage of technolgoy!"
Lesley nods all round
Miao smiles at Lesley.
Gregor waves at Lesley. "Hiya! Glad you could make it!"
Lesley nods at Gregor.
KeikoS bows to Lesley
Colega waves to Lesldy
Colega . o O ( sheesh! )
Lesley blinks
Colega agrees with Keiko.
Lesley is reading the blackboard
Colega says, "Frankly, I don't know how on earth you do most of the Cs *without* the Internet!"
KeikoS says, "Please go on to next..."
Gregor [to KeikoS]: What tech advances have you seen in the last couple years that have accelerated or advanced the achievement of these goals?
Colega says, "Unless you live somewhere near a target language community."
KeikoS [to Colega]: Absolutely right.
Lesley says, "Actually, I have a counter example of the target language community thing"
KeikoS [to Colega]: now you can actually TALK easier on the Internet.  Does that count?
Lesley says, "Excuse me while I find it..."
Colega knew she could count on Lesley!
Miao waits for Lesley.
Colega [to KeikoS]: And why not?
Miao's only concern is that some students may just want to talk and that's all.
Gregor says, "I think you could do most of these things perfectly well 5 years ago, using a combination of MOO, WWW, and email. The main advancement I see is integration of elements into one easier-to-use application."
KeikoS says, "Well, it is not good enough that not everybody can take advantage yet."
Colega taught ESL where learners were *surrounded* by native speakers, but they had their first conversations with NSs via Internet because it was more comfortable, more anonymous.
KeikoS [to Colega]: how interesting
Miao [to Gregor]: enCore?
Lesley now has the example.  This is a quotation from a native english speaker living in France and who is studying French via voice over internet with other native English speakers...
KeikoS says, "I think it is important to actually TALK, because that is a speaking skill."
"-0-0-0-0-Lesley gets out a quill pen-0-0-0-0-"
The contact with a group was very good for me as I mostly work completely alone being based in France
"-0-0-0-0-Lesley admires her flawless copperplate handwriting-0-0-0-0-"
Lesley raises an eyebrow - interesting one, isn't it?
Gregor [to Lesley]: Does s/he elaborate about that isolation? Is it because it's too difficult to integrate eirself in the NS community?
KeikoS grins to Lesley... so second langauge is not that much of an advantage
Colega says, "So... this person's comfort level was raised by being connected to a group of similar learners."
Lesley [to Gregor]: s/he does, and it's to do with confidence building... what we have said elsewhere is the following:
"-0-0-0-0-Lesley gets out a quill pen-0-0-0-0-"
la communaut qui a le plus d'influence sur l'apprenant de L2 n'est pas tant la communaut linguistique que la communaut des apprenants.
[the community which has the most influence on the L2 learner isn't so much the language community as the learner community]
"-0-0-0-0-Lesley admires her flawless copperplate handwriting-0-0-0-0-"
Colega says, "and if you're not comfortable, learning a foreign language is the last thing you want to do."
Lesley says, "Sorry about the missing e acutes"
Lesley says, "I'll be right back"
Colega says, "Which gets us to the very important aspect of community as a motivator for language learning."
Gregor's jaw drops at the simplicity and logic of that statement.
KeikoS grins-- does it show acute here?
Colega says, "Look at #3 on the blackboard..."
Colega says, "That's what I was getting at."
==================== BLACKBOARD ===========================

1)  penpal project introduction
2)  the special knowledge you get by understanding distinctive vocabulary in a foreign language that can't be translated into your own native language
3)  How does community make language-learning happen?  And what Internet applications foster community - and why?
4)  collaborative MOO project
5)  Since communication can take place "across centuries through the reading of literature," what are some similiar forms of communication on-line?  Writing webpages?

===========================================================
Colega says, "I think Lesley's quote there answered the first question."
Miao [to Lesley]: I think this also depends on the speaker's life style. I remember many of my international friends have little time to social while they are doing thier grad study. Ironically establish contact with the outer world in a new place become a unreachable goal.
KeikoS likes what Colega wrote
Colega nods her head in agreement wit Miao.
Lesley [to Miao]: That may be true for students, but this is not a student.  this is someone who lives and works in the target langauge community and is studying French at a distance in their 'spare' time.
Colega says, "I had grad students who did nothing but go to class and study at home surrounded by their family and friends.  They never had time to do the "social thing" in a way that would get them contact with NSs."
Gregor [to Miao]: It's true. When I was in grad school, I interviewed a large number of international graduate students who told me that when they finished their English studies at the IEP, they almost never SPOKE English again... they read it and wrote it in their classes, but they didn't have time to socialize in English.
Colega [to Lesley]: Same problem with lack of time to integrate oneself into the NS community.  It takes an enormous amount of time and effort.
KeikoS says, "langauge is context..."
Colega says, "unless you already know someone who will introduce you around to their friends."
Miao nods agree with Colega..
Gregor says, "Or unless you're that rare person who has a talent for getting to know strangers quickly. But as I say, that's rare."
Lesley [to Colega]: Yes and no.  Remember that working in France, the likelihood is that French is necessary...
Miao says, "while in certain MOO or someplace on the internet , finding *friendly stranger is somewhat easier. "
Gregor nods to Miao.
KeikoS [to Miao]: that is why I want teachers to select class with class
Colega says, "So you use the language because it's necessary, but not necessarily to form relationships."
KeikoS [to Miao]: with a friendly teacher to work with, of course
Miao nods at KeikoS.
Gregor [to Colega]: Reminds me of my readings about code-switching, and how one language is the language of work and the other the language of home and relationships.
Colega thinks that having personal relationships is the best, most motivating way to facilitate LL - it's the most intimate and rewarding community.
Colega [to Gregor]: Ooo, exactly!
Miao strongly agrees with Colega.
Colega says, "As Miao said, finding someone friendly with whom to have personal-level discourse is easier online."
Lesley has a suspicion that making errors in FL is probably one of the most motivating factors in SLA... she certainly remembers those things she made errors in best...
KeikoS says, "Well, what can we teachers do in classroom?"
Colega says, "Stick 'em online!"
Gregor says, "Or BICS and CALP... kids learning Basic Interpersonal Communication Skills quickly (playground talk) but doing poorly in CALP... whatever that was... Classroom and Academic Language P-something... Anyone remember those studies?"
Colega grins.
Lesley [to Gregor]: Indeed.
KeikoS thinks - I see all these points...
Miao has a clue somewhere.
Gregor nods to Lesley. "Can you remember what CALP stands for?"
KeikoS was just going to ask
Lesley [to Gregor]: Nope.
Colega sees that the standards try to cover both of those.
Chrissy [to Gregor]: P for performance?
Colega says, "proficiency?"
Gregor grins. "Me neither, but the concept is clear in my mind."
Colega grins.
Gregor nods. "Those make sense."
Lesley wonders if anyone's yet talked about learning the subject/discipline via L2 instead of L1?
KeikoS says, "Smoody!"
Colega says, "Traditional language teaching has focused a lot on CALP, and it's been very difficult to focus on BICS with NSs because of the near-impossibility of easily getting into conversations with them - until the Internet."
Miao . o O ( learning computer skill? )
Gregor says, "Sooo... seems to me the Internet can provide access to both kinds of community... learner communities AND language communities. Email lists, BBSs, MOO, chat rooms, etc."
Colega [to Lesley]: Yeah, we got into that briefly last night, talking about Languages Across the Curriculum (LAC).
Smoody smiles and thinks KeikoS and Miao have good memories
Lesley [to Gregor]: Mostly if the language community is English speaking.  It's much harder to find non-English-speaking communities
Gregor [to Lesley]: PEEK 6 IN LCD
[Lesley peeks into No.6.]
Miao smiles at Smoody.
KeikoS is now taking note, this is good
[Chrissy peeks into No.6.]
Lesley would prefer to refer to concepts rather than viewpoints, really, but it means the same.
Colega [to Lesley]: Is that true?  Granted, it's overwhelmingly English, but I've had no trouble finding at least Spanish-speaking communities.  That's why MundoHispano lost so much population - it was no longer the only game in the pueblo!
Gregor [to KeikoS]: Are there many Japanese chat rooms?
KeikoS says, "Well, showing double byte in chatroom is not easy"
KeikoS says, "but Japanese people chat among each other in Japan a LOT!"
Colega [to KeikoS]: How?
KeikoS says, "but you know, somebody has to do a lot of recruiting."
Gregor [to KeikoS]: Online?
Lesley [to Colega]: There are a lot of Spanish and Portuguese speaking 'chatrooms' (I *hate* and take issue with that term, btw)and several Italian ones.  But it's very hard to break into those as a non-native speaker on the whole.  And the same has been said about a lot of MOOs - they can be very cliquey.
KeikoS says, "Chatroom is usually Java application and if the programmer didn't program to make the doublebyte character able, we are out of luck, just use romanized"
Gregor [to KeikoS]: But are there double-byte-enabled java chatroom available in Japan?
KeikoS says, "Yes.  "
KeikoS says, "I would like to find one for educational purposes"
KeikoS says, "Not just housewives making a move to young men"
Gregor nods. "That'll take off in the next few years as international standards come together."
Colega [to Lesley]: Ah, yes.  I find it difficult, myself, to break into most English synch-comm environments ("chatrooms" is at least shorter!).  Most communities are cliquey.  Schmooze is particularly open, but that's part of its theme.
Gregor [to KeikoS]: What could be more motivating than that!? :o)
Lesley has also found that MOOs aimed specifically at the language learner tend to be sparsely populated if the language isn't English, *and* there's a tendency for those who use them to come in classes rather than individually, so there may not be much collaborative learning going on between native/non-native speakers
KeikoS grins to Lesley
Colega says, "Isn't making moves on young men the whole reason for learning a language?"
Colega grins.
KeikoS says, "I think setting up a chatroom is one thing (w/ double byte and all that) but making it work like we want is TOTALLY another"
Lesley says, "There's an interesting Italian learning in Moo project at the U.of Glasgow, I believe, using Little Italy, which is an Italian community MOO."
KeikoS listens to Lesley
Colega [to Lesley]: The problem is, teachers have no idea how to create activities that get their individual students logging on and getting involved.
KeikoS listens to Colega
Lesley [to Colega]: Indeed, and it's a great shame because it's actually not difficult!
Gregor [to Colega]: Most teachers want plug-n-play, paradoxically...
Miao listens to both
Lesley blames teacher-training...
KeikoS says, "Yeah, of course, there is teacher standards."
Colega says, "We need teachers who grew up using chat rooms.  Do we *really* have to wait for the present generation to retire???"
KeikoS says, "We have been discussing students standards"
Miao says, "Could it be possible that teacher may need to spend more time in *monitoring the students' activities and progress?"
Chrissy says, "For learning foreign language other than English, I remember someone collects all educational MOOs for this and post it on a site."
Lesley says, "Actually, you know, I'm not convinced that chatrooms, per se, are the ideal environment for language learning.  tbvr is, I think, more effective.  Graphical stuff, I'm not convinced about, though enCore has its uses."
Gregor says, "It's ironic, because teachers who fear computers are afraid that computers will take over their job. But when asked to use computers, they want the computer to do all the work!"
Lesley [to Chrissy]: It's already up on the WELL site.
Colega says, "The first generation of Internet-users is just graduating from college now...  Give it a few years, it won't be so difficult to teach them how to teach online."
Lesley . o O ( http://www.well.ac.uk )
KeikoS [to Gregor]: true, but teachers have NOTHING to worry about IMHO
Miao *loves enCore, only concerned about the speed that it requires.
Colega [to Lesley]: What is tbvr, please?
Gregor [to KeikoS]: Teachers who fear computers have plenty to worry about, IMNTBHO. ;o)
Lesley [to Miao]: Oh, encore is only as good as its user.
Lesley says, "text based virtual reality"
Gregor elbows Colega.
Gregor grins
Lesley [to Miao]: or the activities developed for use in it.
Colega says, "text-based virtual reality... that's what this is.  But you'd add graphics  - how about audio?  and in what form?"
Chrissy [to Lesley]: What is in my mind is this: <http://skally.net/eduvr/links.html/> -- the educational MOO collection.
KeikoS says, "THere we go.  audio equipped online community!"
Lesley says, "I'd add voice over internet, of course."
Lesley says, "And streaming audio possibly, depending on my purpose."
KeikoS wants such a community/environment
Miao nods.
Gregor grins.
Lesley murmurs gently that it's all perfectly possible if you know how to do it.
Miao [to Colega]: A few ppl I know is trying to put voice into a enCore based rooms, but the point I think here is how to use different forms of voice.
KeikoS keeps dreaming with glossy eyes
Miao nods agree with Lesley.
Gregor [to Lesley]: It's available if you patch together multiple applications. But then we get into teacher training and usability issues for most teachers.
Miao says, "sound and voice at current state just can't come in real time that well, as text exchange.."
Lesley [to Gregor]: Oh, there are ways round that.
Gregor says, "I hate to say it, but most teachers seem to be completely floored by the "difficulty" of using MOO."
Smoody still finds the standards' description of "communication" with literature across centuries interesting.  "There should be some interesting on-line parallels there
Colega says, "If y'all don't mind, I'm going to paste a bit of spam here.  We don't have to get into it now, as it's late, but it's a message I sent to FLTEACH that I'd like to have in the archives here... maybe it will get discussion going on other apps or features that would help us reach these standards."
KeikoS likes to listen to Smoody
Lesley [to Miao]: I disagree with you.  We've been working with voice for the last 2 years and have had few problems.
Smoody smiles at KeikoS
Colega says, "Sorry... it was too much of a mess. I'll send it to neteach-l."
Miao [to Lesley]: Sounds like good news to be. Would love to know how it is used.
Smoody [to Colega]: "great idea -> posting on neteach-l
Lesley [to Miao]: http://hennepin.open.ac.uk/cml-staff/lesley.shield/Publications
Colega nods.
Miao nods at Lesley.
Lesley does a bit of publicity!
---------------------------note to gregor--------------------------
insert Colega's posting here
---------------------------note to gregor--------------------------
Gregor grins.
Gregor says, "Well, gang, we are indeed overtime at this point."
KeikoS bows to Gregor
Gregor says, "Any wrapup statements?"
KeikoS says, "It was a great session.  I am glad I woke up."
Miao smiles.
|----------------[Gregor slaps some spam on the screen]----------------|
Is it possible to successfully reach all five of these goal areas
in a completely online language instruction scenario? If yes, how?
If no, what is missing and how can we rectify it?
|---------------------[Gregor wipes off his hands]---------------------|
Chrissy [to Gregor]: Thank you for arranging the session.  I really appreciate your effort and time.
Colega says, "It was fun - more free-wheeling than last night.  Great follow-up. "
Lesley is sorry a) she was late and b) she missed last night
Miao [to Gregor]: Yeah, good work.
Gregor says, "I think we can conclude that yes, the Internet may provide some aspects of the Five C's that are otherwise unavailable to language teachers and learners..."
KeikoS nods to Gregor
Gregor says, "Thanks, all."
Colega says, "Maybe all of them."
KeikoS says, "Thank YOU, Gregor"
Colega says, "Great to see everyone!"

Gregor puts Transparency No.10 on the stage.

On the screen you see...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                              A REMINDER...

               Please note! Our sessions are always logged.
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    Before using any part of our logs for research or publication, please
          obtain the permission of Greg Younger at greg@dyvic.com

                For a transcript, please see our web page:
                  http://www.dyvic.com/~greg/netmoo/

              Contact Greg Younger to suggest future topics!

             ******     Thanks for participating!     ******

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
KeikoS says, "Great meeting with you all."
KeikoS shakes hands with everybody
Colega waves to everyone.
 
 
 

PS: Miao kindly supplied me with a link to Jim Cummins' paper on the BICS/CALP distinction after the session. It's at http://www.iteachilearn.com/cummins/converacademlangdisti.html. Thanks, Miao! :o)

Please send comments to Greg@Dyvic.com.