SESSION 3-B

(Ed-Tech: Geeky Teachers Seeking a Balance)

NETEACH Nook
Your typical classroom. It's beginning to feel a bit more lived in, and
someone managed to put up at least one nice decoration: a world map with push
pins showing where NETEACHers have connected from. So far, there are pins in
Japan, Korea, Hong Kong, Australia, Greece, UK, Brazil, Israel, and all over 
the US.
You see Teacher's Desk, Bulletin Board, Beanbags, Kitchen Table, Wading Pool,
 Bearskin by the Fire, and Hot Tub.
You see Gregor, Ron, thinking, and Truna standing about.
You see LCD Panel and Last Week's Blackboard.
Obvious exits: out
Gregor says, "Do you two know each other? Thinking, Truna.... Truna, thinking!"
Ron says, "Did you ever have your screen go black on you?"
Truna looks a bit apologetic, she is actually in the middle of a class...
thinking doesn't know if she knows Truna.
Gregor [to Ron]: Only when I drink. :o)
Gregor turned on the LCD Panel.
Ron [to Gregor]: You don't see stars then?

Gregor puts a transparency on the screen...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

             Welcome to NETEACH-L's MOO discussion sessions!

             (with much appreciation to schMOOze University 
             and its fine players, programmers, and wizards!)

               Please note! Our sessions are always logged.
      By participating, you give permission to Greg Younger to allow 
    access to the transcripts for research purposes at his discretion.
    Before using any part of our logs for research or publication, please 
      obtain the permission of Greg Younger at youngerg@colorado.edu

                For a transcript, please see our web page:
              http://spot.colorado.edu/~youngerg/netmoo.html

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gregor says, "Here's our new welcome sign, as discussed on the list. :o)"
thinking says, "looks good to me!"
Ron nods Gregor.
thinking will brb
Truna says, "nice"
Ron corrects a typo:  'to gregor'
Gregor says, "Any comments or suggestions? I myself am excited about the idea 
 that someone was intrigued by our projct. (someone outside our little group 
 here.)"
Ron [to Gregor]: Ditto!
thinking says, "back"
Truna BRB :(
Frizzy steps off the rubber stripe looking ready for NET gains.
Ron says, "Small crowd tonight."
Gregor grins at Ron.
Ron waves at Frizzy.
thinking hugs frizzy
Gregor says, "Howdy, Friz! You just missed the opening screen. :o)"
Frizzy says, "Hi everyone!  Sorry for being late."
Gregor hugs Frizzy.
Ron hugs Frizzy with a warm and loving embrace.
Frizzy hugs all in sight!

Gregor puts a transparency on the screen...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                      ***      INTRODUCTIONS      ***

     You are of course welcome to remain anonymous, but at this time
     we invite all of you who wish to do so to identify yourselves by
     your name and affiliation.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
thinking says, "stop the meeting!"
Gregor is really um.... Joe P. Smith IRL. :o)
Ron says, "Ron Corio from Virginia Commonwealth Univ here."
Frizzy is Karla Frizler, an Educational Technology Specialist for City College
 of San Francisco.
Ron wonders what's up with thinking.
Gregor snickers and admits to being Greg Younger of Economics Institute in
 Colorado.
thinking is Susan Gaer from Rancho Santiago College
Gregor [to thinking]: You OK?
Truna is back, she is really Truna aka j.turner of Brisbane, Australia
Truna bows
Ron waves at Truna.

Gregor puts a transparency on the screen...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

           *** Ed-Tech: Geeky Teachers Seeking a Balance ***

Our technical knowledge (or even *interest*) seems to be making us more 
marketable in our changing field. But the range of our new role has not 
yet been clearly defined. How do we go about searching for/creating job 
descriptions which recognize the tasks we perform and the benefits we 
bring to our institutions? How do we reach our potential?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
thinking says, "yes I am ok"
Ron says, "Instead of job descriptions, how do you create jobs?"
Gregor says, "I liked having multiple perspectives at the last meeting, and I
 think we have a good mix this time too..."
Truna sighs, the problem with her job is that the whole point is to become
 redundant!!
Ron [to Truna]: Isn't that what good teachers hope for?
Truna grins at Ron and nods
Gregor [to Ron]: Maybe that's the key right there. Maybe this technological
 expertise can open a whole NEW set of jobs in this tight field.
Frizzy is pretty sure that will happen.
Ron says, "I have been getting new work possibilities as a result of hanging
 out (and working) on the net."
Gregor adds, "Cuz it's a squeeze these days for "mere teachers"... a zillion
 applicants for every position."
Frizzy says, "As someone out there in the job market, I've seen more job
 descriptions which include some technical element."
Frizzy says, "More than teaching jobs!"
thinking says, "the only reason I got my full time job is because of what I
 have done."
Gregor nods. "It's always stated in our ads that that is a consideration, but
 nothing more."
Ron says, "If we do the net stuff and are patient, we will be in demand."
Gregor [to thinking]: Can you talk about your position a little?
thinking says, "ok I am talking about my job or how I got it?"
Gregor [to thinking]: How about a little ofboth?
Ron is wondering if the edtech work will enough in demand to go independent.
thinking says, "ok......."
thinking says, "I had been working for a small adult school in Central
 california"
Frizzy [to Ron]: "I think there is a HUGE demand for teacher training."
thinking says, "doing what we all do...turning students onto technology"
Ron [to Frizzy]: Yeah! I agree.
thinking says, "when I found a job in the chronicle of higher ed (online) and
 applied for"
thinking says, "it was a soft money one year position at Rancho Santiago
 College running a workplace"
thinking says, "resource center."
Truna is impressed at thinking...the chronicle of Higher Ed..
Gregor [to tjhink]: What's "soft Money?"
thinking [to Truna]: it is online
thinking says, "it is grant money that once it is gone is gone."
Frizzy grins at Gregor.  "Grant money."
thinking says, "not permanent money"
Ron [to Gregor]: "Bills.
thinking smiles at ron
Frizzy is currently being paid with soft money.  "Smoooooooth."
Gregor nods. "Gotta get me some of that. Please go on! :o)"
Truna shivers..her govt is going for cuts a gogogo
Ron . o O ( hard money is better )
thinking says, "I got the job because part of the job entailed running a
 workplace computer man."
thinking says, "LOL...man=lab"
Gregor cracks up!
thinking wonders if anyone knows what is on her mind.
Frizzy cracks up!
Truna grins
Frizzy scares her cat, she laughs so loud.
thinking says, "anyhow...."
Ron . o O ( what is on thinking's mind )
Gregor distracts the kids from their Disney flick... big mistake! ;o)
thinking says, "I got the job and started doing massive staff development in
 the lab for instructors."
Gregor [to thinking]: So the point is, you were perfect for the job because of
 your past experience?
thinking says, "everyone liked me. I got a reputation on the entire campus
 (including the credit program)for a person who knows what she is doing."
thinking says, "yes."
Frizzy smiles.
thinking is glad gregor is focusing her.
thinking smiles.
Frizzy pipes in, "AND she is driven."
thinking says, "but I even got a better job after that."
Gregor grins at thinking.
Ron . o O ( and she is a ball of energy )
. . . An inspiration to us all!
thinking blushes incredibly
Ron wonders who said*that*.
Gregor hands thinking a large bouquet of roses and plants a tiara on her head.
thinking notes that current company is her inspriation
Frizzy says, "Group hug!"
Ron . o O ( who needs real friends )
Truna reckons it's time to offer cold drinks and chocolate all round
thinking says, "and only because of what I know about technology."
thinking has been caught by the nasty lag devil. Please help!!
Gregor says, "That's a point I think Frizzy has made in the past... we're good 
 for each other here. If we keep putting our heads together, we're gonna go
 places."
thinking agrees with gregor
Frizzy too.
Truna nods too
Gregor [to Frizzy]: You better agree with me! I was agreeing with YOU! :o)
Frizzy says, "Hee hee!"
Truna is dragged away by a student...BRB
Gregor says, "My experience is pretty much the same. I was known by the right
 person to be someone with those tech skills."
Claire [Guest] slides in, ready to NETwork.
Gregor . o O ( and here she is! :o)   )
Frizzy [to Claire [Guest]]: "Hi there!  Welcome!"
Claire [Guest] says, "hi everyone -- sorry to be late again"
Ron waves at Claire [Guest].
thinking says, "hi Claire ...is this THE CLAIRE B?"
Claire [Guest] says, "yes""
Gregor hugs Claire, noting she did NOT bring Groucho glasses to hide her face!
 ;o)
Ron wonders if that is Claire from Michigan State.
thinking notes has heard so much about her.
Claire [Guest] says, "yes, from MSU. Gregor, do you think I need to hide my 
 face??"
Ron [to Claire [Guest]]: Welcome to the Neteach MOO. 
Frizzy smirks.
Claire [Guest] says, "Thanks -- where are we in the discussion?"
Gregor [to Claire [Guest]]: I'm just joking with you based on your comment
 about people being shy about being analyzed here.
Ron [to Claire [Guest]]: This is the first time we have mooed together.
Gregor grins.
Truna falls back into the room from Rl
Ron thinks Claire will help us focus.
Claire [Guest] says, "yes, indeed. The last time Gregor and I Mooed, we were
 in the hot tub, as I keep reminding him"
thinking wonder how they will analyze my computer man slip up.
Frizzy waggles her eyebrows.
Frizzy says, "Tub's free."
Gregor [to Claire [Guest]]: we're all kinda just talking about what skills we
 had that got us our jobs.
Claire [Guest] says, "Is it Ron Corio, or are last names a nig secret?"
Ron says, "I got my job before I had a lot of net experience."
Claire [Guest] says, "Is it Ron corio, or are last names a big secret?"
thinking [to Claire [Guest]]: the last time Gregor and I mooed we ended up in
 the hot tub too...hmmmm
Gregor [to claire,]: Naw, we all fessed up when we started the meeting.
Ron [to Claire [Guest]]: Yes, this is Ron C.
Claire [Guest] says, "Aha"
Frizzy has promoted herself as a good resource person, but not necessarily a
 "know-it-all."  "If I don't have the answer, I can at least point people in
 the right direction."
Ron put his first photos on the Web today.
Gregor [to Frizzy]: That's probably wise... you don't want to set up
 unreasonable expectations.
thinking says, "What is scarry to me is HOW LITTLE I KNOW! And they think of
 me as an expert."
Frizzy [to Ron]: "Wow!  That's great."
Claire [Guest] says, "yes, i think Frizzy is right. As fast as CALL is moving
 now, there is no way that any of us can inow it all. But we can orient people
 as to where/how to find the answers."
Frizzy grins at thinking.
Gregor [to thinking]: What's scary is that the "little" you know DOES make you
 an expert!
Claire [Guest] says, "I'm giving a week-long CALL workshop next week, and
 already I'm wondering if they will expect me to know Javascript. !!!!"
Frizzy [to Claire [Guest]]: "I think it also empowers people to be able to
 find the answers themselves anyway, whether they be students or colleagues."
Ron . o O ( that little is a lot )
thinking says, "If they do then they went to the wrong workshop"
Gregor nods to Ron.
thinking says, "I think the computer hype is way out of control."
Claire [Guest] says, "right because it is billed for beginners. But some of
 the particpants are not beginners"
Truna [to Claire [Guest]]: I find it's the expectations of others that taught
 me how to crack Java
Frizzy agrees with thinking.
Claire [Guest] says, "Do you mean Java or javascript"
Ron says, "At the rate people are learning, will these edtech jobs be short
 term?"
thinking says, "I read a computer ed tech article (from the FROM NOW ON Web
 site) about that."
Frizzy doesn't think the jobs will be short-term.
Frizzy says, "The way technology changes and develops, there will always be a
 need for Ed Tech Specialist."
Truna [to Claire [Guest]]: both, the first bits of info about it were so
 confusing for my students...
Gregor [to Ron]: Not among a lot of the teachers I know. There are heaps of
 people who will simply not go beyond the basics. I think we've got some
 security.
thinking thinks that many comptuer knowers are power control freaks and those
 of us who are empowering freaks will prevail.
Todzilla has arrived.
Ron nods to you.
Frizzy hugs Todzilla.
Gregor says, "Howdy, Todz. Welcome!"
Todzilla hugs back
Ron waves at Todzilla.
thinking says, "hi Todz!"
Truna grins at Todzilla in greeting
Todzilla says, "Howdy"
thinking is not sure she has met Todz before.
Claire [Guest] says, "waves at Todzilla"
Todzilla says, "What a friendly group of humans."
Claire [Guest] says, "sometimes"
Frizzy grins.
Todzilla says, "I feel a lot of love in this room."
Gregor says, "Would anyone agree that that's the way it SHOULD be? That most
 teachers only need to be basic USERS of the tech and a few of us need to know
 more?"
Frizzy [to Todzilla]: "You missed the group hug, and we were just debating
 whether or not to get into the hot tub."
Ron thinks he will have to keep one foot in neteaching in order to be
 netrainer.
thinking says, "I think basic useres is a good start and that as you develop
 projects you learn more to do what it is you need to do."
Frizzy agrees with Greg somewhat.  "It depends what Ts want to do with the
 technology."
Truna [to Gregor]: My teachers take off on what they can do with stuff, they
 don't wanr to know How it works too much
Ron [to Gregor]: That is an interesting point.
Frizzy says, "I have a lot of Ts coming to me now saying, "Friz, I need a Web
 page for my class."  But they refuse to learn HTML."
Claire [Guest] says, "I'm not even sure it's desirable for all of us to be
 techies. Techies are in danger of losing perspective. We need the full-time
 teachers to help us keep straight about what the objectives are"
thinking says, "last week my first computer mentee from Visalia showed me a
 hyperstudio project she taught her students to do. It was beautiful. She
 learned hyperstudio because she wanted her students to do it."
Truna really agrees with Claire on that!
thinking says, "I don't know hyperstudio."
Ron says, "But a teacher who says "I need a Web page for my class" has not
 thought about how to use it."
Todzilla says, "Right on Claire.  We just had a big meeting/battle at our ELI
 between the teachers and the techs.  I was in the middle."
thinking says, "I was sooo impressed that she took it upon herself to do that."
Gregor says, "I mean, sometimes I wish all my colleagues were authoring lessons
 and making web pages and doing it all, but then I stop and think that other
 perspectives are important. Plus, that I'd lose MY edge if everyone were a
 geek along with me! :o)"
Claire [Guest] says, "Maybe I just think that because I haven't taught for a
 couple of years now -- I just do techie stuff. But I miss teaching"
Frizzy [to Ron]: "Exactly!  That's my next step."
Truna pinches the Geek!
Gregor howls!
Frizzy [to Todzilla]: "I think those of us in the middle, and able to see both
 sides, will be the most marketable ones in the future of education."
Truna looks a bit sorry....
Frizzy waves the flag.
Gregor winks at Truna.
Ron says, "We need to think about what it is we want to do before selecting
 the technology."
Frizzy nods.
Todzilla says, "I had to side with the teachers instead of the geeks.  The
 geeks almost ruined our whole lab by going kookoo on the tech side, losing
 sight of who theyof what we were doing and why we were there."
thinking says, "I have this stages of mastery of technology continum about how
 technology islearned."
Gregor [to Todzilla]: Are you talking about geeky teachers or sysadmin types?
Truna has a situation where the teachers, as workers, are the focus and she'll
 get'em anything they want!
Claire [Guest] says, "In almost any controversy between teachers and geeks, I
 would definitely side with the teachers."
thinking says, "it goes from the survival stage to the innovation stage."
Gregor nods at Claire.
Todzilla says, "I am talking to system guys. But we have one guy who is at the
 school.  Now they are making him a teacher."
Ron [to Claire [Guest]]: I don't know about that.  I'm a teacher and have been
 called a geek.
thinking says, "always sides with teachers."
Frizzy says, "I have to say, though, that I have lost respect for some
 teachers because they are very demanding, but don't realize how their
 requests impact the techies."
Frizzy says, "they don't take the time to become informed."
Ron nods Frizzy.
Gregor [to Frizzy]: It goes back to what you said about how wonderful we are
 here in the middle! ;o)
thinking says, "education and staff development is the key to that "
Todzilla says, "Our teachers just want the printers to work, but the techs are
 busy trying out new fun programs we don't need."
thinking says, "they are demanding because they have no idea what they are
 asking."
Frizzy says, "That's not good, Toddy."
Truna [to Frizzy]: Some do tho' and they effect the others....auto-empowerment?
Ron says, "How many here are teaching ESOL?"
Claire [Guest] says, "sorry to be so dumb, but how do you indicate actions
 like hugs and waves and nods?"
Gregor raises his hand.
thinking says, "I am"
Todzilla says, "Yo, I am."
Frizzy will be this summer.
Gregor [to Claire [Guest]]: Colon verbphrase... like, :waves.   
Ron says, "Those teaching are really in the middle."
Claire [Guest] says, "I taught ESOL for 19 years but not for the last 2 years."
Frizzy [to Claire [Guest]]: " :smiles.  
Claire [Guest] says, "Ah, yes, colon -- now I remember! thanks!"
Claire [Guest] smiles
Gregor [to Ron]: How do you mean? The non-techie teachers aren't in the
 middle...
Ron says, "The technololgy has to arise out of the teaching."
Truna [to Ron]: I teach the ESOL teachers more these days....
thinking says, "I am not a techie teacher. I am a teacher who uses the tech
 for its appropriate purpose"
Claire [Guest] says, "oh, Ron, are you saying that the pedagogy should drive
 the technology?"
thinking says, "just like I use the overhead for its purpose and the video for
 its...etc."
Ron blushes and says 'yes' to Claire.
Gregor says, "Every time I give a workshop, my colleagues get excited about the
 possibilities of doing more with computers in their teaching, but it all
 comes down to a lack of time to really apply what they've learned..."
Truna giggles at the lovely pink colour Ron has gone!
Todzilla says, "The tech need to be educated better about what we need and
 what we do, and we need to learn at least something about what they do."
Frizzy nods.
Todzilla says, "And if the don't, we shoot them at sunrise."
Todzilla curses his typos
Ron . o O ( we are all using tech, but I wonder if we mean the same thing )
thinking smiles at todzilla
Frizzy [to Gregor]: "Exactly.  It will take some dedication on the part of
 teachers and admin (e.g. release time) in order to get teachers training and
 USING tech as a tool.
Gregor moans, "They're all so busy... Is there a mechanism for getting them
 time for learning, as I have fought for time for training them???"
Todzilla says, "There seems to be a lack of training in the situations I have
 seen."
Ron says, "I had a nice job come to me as a result of my neteaching
 expereince."
Claire [Guest] says, "The problem with having the pedagogy always drive the
 technology is that then we use the technology merely as an extension of what
 we can already do. Instead, we should be looking for the inovative thngs
 which the technology permits us to do which we couldn't do before. I DON'T
 mean at all that we should just do cool techie things just because they are
 cool and because we can do them!"
Frizzy [to Ron]: "Which job?
Invar [Guest] slides in, ready to NETwork.
Invar [Guest] says, "Hello folks"
Todzilla says, "Quick off-topic question: How do I reset my personal info? 
 It's stupid and I must change it."
thinking says, "hi invar"
Ron [to Frizzy]: "Teaching a computer component in a special program for nine
 graduate Ss who just arrived from Thailand.
Frizzy likes Claire's point.  "Technology isn't just a tool sometimes, but a
 means of communcation, etc."
Gregor [to Claire [Guest]]: that comes back to that discussion of Van Lier (?)
 saying that pedagogy absolutely MUST drive technology... I like how you put
 it.
Gregor says, "Hi, Invar."
Todzilla says, "Invar, come in and have a cup."
Frizzy [to Todzilla]: "Personally, I like it.  But if you must change, type: 
 @describe me as "blah blah blah"   "
Ron waves at Invar [Guest].
thinking says, "well if i want my students to communicate with other studetns
 in another state, email is the obvious choice."
Invar [Guest] says, "I'm the person who asked for permission to use the MOO
 logs"
Frizzy bows gracefully.
Frizzy says only eloquent and profound things from now on.
Invar [Guest] waves hello
Ron says, "welcome invar and go at those logs."
thinking says, "welcome Invar"
Gregor [to Invar [Guest]]: Oh, Hi! Nice to meet you! Everyone, this is
 Invar... Invar, Everyone!
Claire [Guest] says, "I can't take credit. I recently had a big discussion
 with Nina Garrett on this point. We had fun and fianlly ended up agreeing
 that the relationship between pedadgoy and technology is much more complex
 than most people are willing to admit"
Truna waves at Invar
Invar [Guest] says, "Merci beacoup"
Claire [Guest] waves at Invar
thinking [to Invar [Guest]]: but we hope you will take part in this
 convesation as well.
Claire [Guest] says, "Oh, no, time to start feeling analyzed!  :-)"
Ron [to Claire [Guest]]: Pedagogy can drive technology w/o ruling out new ways
 to reach the learning objectives.
Frizzy hates to be a party pooper, but she must go now.
Truna [to Claire [Guest]]: Yes, it's a kind of mutual feed...you use one
 because of the other but then that use encourages more experimentation
Invar [Guest] says, "I don't want to interrupt - what is the focus of the
 conversation??"
Gregor [to Claire [Guest]]: So when are you two going to write it up as a
 paper? I would love to hear your and Nina's further thinking on this!
Ron says, "Bye friz"
Frizzy says, "Bye everyone.  See you next month."
thinking says, "also technology is now a survival skill for the real world."
Gregor waves at Friz. "Bye! Thanks for coming! :o)"
thinking says, "so learning technology for the sake of learning technology is
 important."
Claire [Guest] says, "bye Frizzy -- please let me know about you-know-what"
Frizzy agrees with thinking, then bails!
The cosmic goddess places Frizzy upon a cloud with a silver lining and wooshes
 her back to real life.
Frizzy has disconnected.
Truna hugs Frizzy goodbye
Gregor reposts the topic for Invar.
Ron [to Claire [Guest]]: But the learning goals are driven by pedagogy, not
 technology.

Gregor puts a transparency on the screen...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

           *** Ed-Tech: Geeky Teachers Seeking a Balance ***

Our technical knowledge (or even *interest*) seems to be making us more 
marketable in our changing field. But the range of our new role has not 
yet been clearly defined. How do we go about searching for/creating job 
descriptions which recognize the tasks we perform and the benefits we 
bring to our institutions? How do we reach our potential?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Claire [Guest] says, "yes""
Ron says, "Technology provides many ways to reach learning goals."
Ron likes to think of paper as technology.
thinking says, "technololgy also reaches learners that aren't normally reached
 well with text."
Claire [Guest] says, "yes, paper is certainly technology"
Invar [Guest] looks at you.
Todzilla says, "I want technology to be my slave, not the other way around. 
 Sometimes I find that happening when I spend a good part of my day dealing
 with computer problems.  Time I could be teaching or reading books on
 teaching, etc.."
Gregor read recently about a chalk shortage in Russia and shuddered to think
 of trying to teach without THAT tech!
Truna is once more swept away by a student....BRB
Ron [to thinking]: What do you mean when you say 'technology?'
Todzilla says, "When I taught in Lithuania, they gave me one box of chalk. 
 That was the sum of my supplies for one year."
Ron [to thinking]: Books are technology.
Claire [Guest] says, "In response to the question on the screen, I think a
 good way to start writing a job description of what we do is to keep a loose
 diary or calendar for a few days and then use that to enumerate or summarize
 what we do"
thinking says, "I mean audio tapes, ohps,video camcorders, vcrs, etc....as
 well as computers."
Invar [Guest] says, "tech helps re-define the grammar of schooling doesn't it"
thinking says, "yes books and boards are technology as well."
Ron says, "good idea claire."
Gregor thinks y'all are pushing it to the limit to call books and paper
 "technology"...
Ron [to thinking]: Didn't pedagogy drive our use of OHPs?
Todzilla says, ""Gotta run..."
Claire [Guest] says, "No, I think they are technology. A piece of chalk is
 technology"
thinking [to Gregor]: before the printing press they were as controversial as
 the computer is nowadays.
Gregor says, "I agree that they are teaching tools and that computers are 
 teaching tools, but do you really think that they are equivalent?"
Invar [Guest] says, "are we equating technology with tools?"
Todzilla has disconnected.
Ron says, "Randy BAss gave a wonderful talk on the book thing as technology at
 the recent Epiphany Institute at VCU>"
Truna is back and supposes that the public concencus of Technology is really
 INFORMATION technology
thinking wonders what the exact definition of technology is.
The housekeeper arrives to cart Frizzy off to bed.
Ron [to Gregor]: At there time of introduction, books were as revolutionary as
 computters.
thinking says, "tech.nol.o.gy \-je-\ n [Gk technologia systematic treatment of
 an art, fr. "
thinking says, "did that definition come on the screen?"
Ron says, "The point is that we begin with learning goals, not with
 technology."
Gregor [to thinking]: but at the time of the printing press, it was a huge
 leap into a new realm of shared knowledge. It was a significant change. I'd
 say that computers have that same relationship to the "old" technology. They
 are a significantly different type of teaching tool than what we've had up to
 now.
Ron [to thinking]: Yes
Invar [Guest] says, "In the job description you also have to include process
 skills as well as tool skills I think"
thinking says, "agrees with Gregor"
thinking [to Ron]: I think if you look at definition 3, you would say that
 books are technology as well as chalk and stuff.
Gregor notes we're not quite on topic, but he's having a grand old time! :o)
Ron says, "My use of network technology came about because I was looking for a
 better way to read and respond to S papers."
thinking says, "my use of technology started because I wanted students to
 write for a real purpose."
Ron thinks that computers and networks are bringing us to a new literacy.
Gregor [to Ron]: would you say "Just as books did before (but perhaps have
 ceased to)?
Ron says, "So teachers who say they need a Web page make me wonder if they
 have asked themselves "Why?""
thinking says, "I agree with Ron"
Claire [Guest] says, "I don't know where/when my use of technology started,
 but I was always the one to write manuals for the language labs long before
 we had computers."
Ron [to Gregor]: Hmm . . . well, I think we still have good old book literacy
 too.
Ron says, "Computer network technology also change classroom dynamics."
Gregor [to Claire [Guest]]: because you've got your foot in both worlds we
 were talking about before. You know how to talk tech to non techies!
thinking says, "yes and that change is immediate"
Claire [Guest] says, "I'm not sure I agree with Ron. It's possible that they
 have seen web pages and are aware of their significance even if they don't
 know how to make one. Just because they can't articulate "why" doesn't mean
 that they haven't thought about it. Let's give them some credit."
Ron says, "Classroom dynamics is a pedagogical issue."
Invar [Guest] says, "Good night all.  I must put my kids to bed here in
 Vanderhoof."
Truna [to Ron]: I agree, it's important to ensure sstudents don't leave books
 behind!
Gregor says, "Night, Invar! We'll talk later!"
Invar [Guest] has disconnected.
Truna [to Invar]: Ciao
Claire [Guest] says, "Many of us techies ourselves feel intuitively that we
 are onto something great even though we can't always articulate why!"
Truna [to Claire [Guest]]: I think that we can show the whys in the student
 feedback on their experiences
Gregor says, "Ah! Does that bring us back full circle to the original questio?
 Do we need to articulate it to get the jobs we want!?"
Ron [to Gregor]: What job do you want?
thinking [to Gregor]: I don't think we can articulate it. I think the nature
 of what we do changes rapidly.
thinking says, "I think we can only show products of what we do."
Claire [Guest] says, "yes we need to be able to articulate it. It's all part
 of being able to market ourselves. Teachers are notoriously bad at being able
 to do that."
Ron [to Gregor]: You are a teacher who uses computer technology.  What else?
Gregor [to Ron]: I want to teach ESL students half time and train teachers,
 create web pages, author lessons, fiddle with stuff, the rest of the time.
thinking dematerializes and disappears into cyberspace.
thinking has disconnected.
Ron [to Gregor]: The 'other' stuff would be as an independent contractor?
Claire [Guest] says, "must go to attend to my other passion in life"
Gregor [to Ron]: Ideally, no. It would be seen as an important half of a
 fulltime job. I think institutions would do well to hire people to do
 exactly that... so we can keep a foot in both the tech and the teach worlds.
Ron . o O ( what is Claire's other passion? )
thinking has connected.
thinking has appeared and wants to chat.
thinking says, "sorry I got bumped off."
Gregor [to Claire [Guest]]: Say hi for me! :o)
Ron waves at Claire [Guest].
Gregor notes wer'e out of time anyway...
Claire [Guest] says, "I'm vehemently opposed to capital punishment, and
 they're about to have a show about it on TV"
Claire [Guest] says, "Bye all"
Gregor says, "Bye, Claire!"
Claire [Guest] has disconnected.
Ron [to Gregor]: That is a tall order to ask for.
Truna waves to claire
thinking says, "bye"
Gregor nods to Ron. "I know. But would you agree that it could really
 facilitate the improvement of teaching?"
Ron has to prepare a lesson plan for tomorrow.
thinking says, "I also need to head to the gym"
thinking says, "I am about to be bumped again. So I am out ofhere I think.O"

Gregor puts a transparency on the screen...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                              A REMINDER...

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                               Researchers:
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      obtain the permission of Greg Younger at youngerg@colorado.edu

                For a transcript, please see our web page:
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             ******     Thanks for participating!     ******

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
thinking says, "bye everyone!"
thinking dematerializes and disappears into cyberspace.
thinking has disconnected.
Gregor grins and cheers. "Thanks!!!!"
Ron [to Gregor]: Yes, but to get an employer to buy that will be a Herculean
 task.
Truna loves and leaves
Ron [to Gregor]: Nice session!
Gregor [to Ron]: I'm working on it, though. And making a bit of headway, BTW.
Gregor says, "Ciao, Trunita!"
Ron [to Gregor]: Congrats!
Gregor hugs Truna.
Gregor says, "Thanks, Ron! I think it went well too!"
Gregor notes that his kids' movie JUST ended! Woo woo! What timing!
Ron [to Gregor]: As long as you can show how that is in the interest of your
 employer, it will fly.


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